Well, thank you for those comments, and I appreciate the invitations to your committee, because it is an opportunity to talk about the work that is going on, to gain ideas as to areas that we could be focusing on, and it's an important part of the parliamentary process. Can I just say, on the issue of engagement with the committee, of course I'm very keen to engage as fully as is possible? In terms of the fundamental issue you raise, which is around the issue of access, this is ultimately about the rule of law. This is what we're standing up for within Wales. Lord Bingham, in his very famous book on the rule of law, said that the

'denial of legal protection to the poor litigant who cannot afford to pay is one enemy of the rule of law' and I think we have to get back to fundamental principles and recognising that the issue of access to justice and legal aid is about the empowerment of people—the empowerment of all people, irrespective of how much money or how much wealth they actually have.

You did touch on a couple of important points that—. I know there are so many areas here that we could develop and talk for a long time; I know the Presiding Officer, the Llywydd, won't allow that. But, in terms of access to data, the fact that much data with regard to the court system is England-and-Wales data and not disaggregated—. And those are discussions that I've had and the First Minister has had, and others have had, the Minister for Social Justice has had, with the Lord Chief Justice. The Minister for Social Justice and myself, we'd sought a meeting with the new Lord Chancellor, Dominic Raab. It was arranged instead that we would meet with Lord Wolfson. Well, we've met with Lord Wolfson, and we do have areas of co-operation that are proceeding, but we have made those very points about data, and I think they are recognised. The question is getting systems that change and actually deliver, to enable us to properly evaluate how we can do things better. We do have, of course, certain developments—the youth justice blueprint, and so on—which will provide further information, but we're still far off having the sort of information that we'd need in respect of the proper co-ordination of all those areas we have responsibility for, in conjunction with the justice system.

I think that probably has covered most of the points that you've made. If there are any, I'm sure they'll get explored at my next session at the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee.