The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Lesley Griffiths.

The next item on the agenda is the Welsh Conservatives debate on COVID restrictions. I call on Russell George to move the motion,

Motion NDM7891 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Believes that sport, recreation and exercise are essential for people’s physical and mental health.

2. Recognises the impact on the Welsh hospitality industry of the latest COVID-19 restrictions.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to outline a roadmap to easing restrictions, to include:

a) permitting more than 50 people to exercise outdoors together;

b) removing the rule of six in hospitality and cinemas; and

c) ending the restrictions on the number of people that can attend an outdoor sporting event.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I move the motion this afternoon in the name of my colleague Darren Millar. This motion was of course tabled at the back end of last week, just before the Government made its announcement on the easing of restrictions. I'm always pleased when the Welsh Government pays heed to our motions and I'm glad that the Welsh Government has listened to calls from ourselves and from others in terms of outlining a road map for easing restrictions. And whether you call—. I can see the Minister laughing, but I'm pleased, Minister; I'm being positive here. I'm welcoming the fact that you've heeded our calls.

Russell, will you take an intervention? I've got Huw Irranca-Davies wanting to make an intervention.

I will, Deputy Llywydd.

Russell, thanks very much for taking that intervention. I, like many people, follow the Welsh Conservatives' social media, and the fact you're taking credit for this—. Fair play to you. But one person noticed, in response to that, that it was the equivalent of shouting, for 25 minutes consistently, from row Z in the stands, 'Give the ball to Shane, give the the ball to Shane' and then Biggar kicks the drop goal to win in the final minute, and you pat yourself on the back and say 'Well done'. He wasn't the only one, Russell.

Thanks, Huw. I'm glad that you do follow and take an interest in the Welsh Conservatives' social media. I'm pleased to hear that. I think what I'll outline, perhaps, during the course of this debate, is not only that we're patting ourselves on the back for the Welsh Government taking heed to our calls, but why we questioned why the restrictions were in place in the very first place. I was going to say, Huw, as well, that I congratulate the Welsh Government on having a road map out of restrictions. This is always important. Whether you call it a plan or a road map, I don't particularly mind what you call it, but the public and businesses need to know where the end game is when restrictions are brought into place.

With some of these regulations, Huw, and others, and the Minister, I would say that there are many parts to these regulations that were brought in on Boxing Day that we support. Some of them were balanced. Some of them were proportionate. So, we're not suggesting at all that we disagree with all the regulations that were put in place. What we are saying is that after restrictions are put in place, and after the event, we have to scrutinise and we have to look at what was balanced and what was sensible. That's why we're particularly looking at some of the confusing and contradictory regulations that were part of these regulations that were brought in on Boxing Day.

I think we're all aware—it's been said in the Chamber—of the issue in Caerphilly rugby club, where 50 people were allowed outside to watch a rugby match, but 140 were allowed in the clubhouse on tables of six, to watch the game on streaming. So, we have to question, don't we? Is it not right to question restrictions that limit particularly outdoor activity? And the rule of six, of course, that was brought in during the busiest period of the year for hospitality was business breaking, I'm afraid, for many, sadly. Many of these businesses use this period—as we all know, they use the revenue to carry them through the quieter months ahead. I remember back to last Christmas when we saw much retail shutdown just a few days before Christmas Day.

In Wales, I do not think the business package has been enough. And that's not just me stating that, or Welsh Conservatives; this is the view of businesses across Wales. The chief executive officer of Creative Hospitality Group said this—and I'm quoting him here:

'From my own business perspective, Creative Hospitality Group may be entitled to £90,000 across the nine weeks. This won’t even cover my staff wage, rent and loan repayment costs for a single week. We need more support, we need more clarity and most importantly we need the evidence that shows why our sector has been targeted so harshly.'

We've also heard from the chief executive of the Welsh beer association, who's estimated that on average, each pub across Wales will lose £16,000 each due to the current restrictions, which they won't recover; that's the important point here. Welsh businesses have again been let down by the lack of support from Welsh Government. If you're bringing forward restrictions, you've got to bring forward the right support for businesses. And of course, I say this in the context where businesses in the English economy continue to open freely.

When you bring forward restrictions, these are always balances that have to be taken into account. What I'm saying and what we're saying as Welsh Conservatives today is that the Welsh Government on this occasion got that balance wrong. You've got to think, when restrictions are brought in, about the consequences to businesses, especially along the border. Many people in north Wales go across the border for hospitality, and in south Wales they go into other parts of England. In my own constituency, they just travel a few minutes up the road for hospitality in Shrewsbury and into Shropshire. So, again, you've got to think about the consequences that these restrictions are having on businesses when you're making those balanced choices.

The Government has said that they have been following the science and advice on these restrictions, but we know that advice from University College London submitted to SAGE in December suggested that people were twice as likely to catch COVID whilst out shopping compared to being in a pub or a cinema where no restrictions were in place. I also note that in Scotland, the national clinical director said, just last week I think it was, that Scotland's restrictions on hospitality and sporting events had made little difference to Scotland's coronavirus case numbers compared to the approach taken in England. Of course, again, balances have to be taken into account, but on this occasion, the Welsh Government got the balance wrong.

It's not just about allowing people freely to go into pubs and restaurants and mix, it's not just about whether you're going to watch a football or rugby match; it's about the things that we should legally be entitled to do. It's about our physical and mental well-being. Volunteers across Wales have been let down because we didn't have proper thought when it came to the considerations on parkruns across Wales. I heard what the Minister and others have said previously—that parkruns can continue under the regulations. But practically, they were not able to continue. The practicalities meant that they were not able to continue as has been suggested. Again, people accept restrictions when they're needed, in the context of the right balances, but again, the balances were wrong on this particular restriction also.

When we come to COVID passes, again, we're still waiting for the evidence. The Government says, 'We'll work on the data, we'll supply the data'; we haven't seen the data on COVID passes and where the impact is successful or not successful. We've got to question why the Government is not bringing forward that data also. There is a huge, of course, cost. I won't reiterate my views and the views of Welsh Conservatives on COVID passes; they're well documented. But we've also now got to consider the cost to the taxpayer as a legal challenge is brought to the Welsh Government with regard to COVID passes.

As Welsh Conservatives, as I do myself, we welcome that Ministers have eased restrictions. We have welcomed the road map, to be positive. I'm clearly saying that I'm pleased that we've got a road map out of restrictions. But, of course, I would say that the current restrictions, the restrictions that were brought in on Boxing Day, were an overreaction. I'm glad that the Government has changed position in terms of easing restrictions now, but we've got to assess at what cost these restrictions were brought in. And it would be refreshing if the Minister would accept that perhaps some of the restrictions that were brought in were not appropriate, and perhaps wouldn't do that again if the same scenario was presented again. I think it would be refreshing if the Minister could at least give us some indication of whether she believes that some of the restrictions that were brought in were indeed an overstretch. Diolch, Llywydd.

I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport to formally move the amendment, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Dawn Bowden.

Amendment 1—Lesley Griffiths

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Welcomes the Welsh Government’s decision to:

a) ease restrictions from 15 January so that outdoor events involving up to 500 people or spectators can take place;

b) remove wider protections for outdoor events from 21 January, if conditions allow;

c) complete the move to alert level zero from 28 January, if conditions allow; and

d) review all alert level zero protections and announce any changes on 11 February.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally.

Thank you. Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I have brief comments today. It's clear that this motion is dated. It's calling for a series of things that are already happening, so we will be abstaining today. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? And listening to Russell George there passing judgment on something several weeks after the evidence that was presented to us on the threats that the scientists that had advised the Government thought that we faced at that point, and they came to conclusions based on what they had in front of them at that time—. And the suggestion perhaps that Wales shouldn't have taken steps because England was taking a more cavalier approach is strange to me. It was about protecting and safeguarding the people and health service of Wales. That is the task for the Welsh Government, and, in general, people will find it very difficult to take any lessons from the party of parties at Downing Street—

Russ, did you want to intervene?

—in terms of our response to COVID.

Rhun, will you take an intervention?

I'm happy to take an intervention.

Thank you, Rhun. I take your point, absolutely, about having views in hindsight, but, as Welsh Conservatives, I hope you would agree as well that we don't want to have views in hindsight on these regulations; we want to be able to vote on them when they come forward. And there's no reason why that cannot happen now. With the virtual meetings, that can be easily be brought forward. It could have been brought forward over the Christmas period. So, please, take that into account. We don't want to be talking about these in hindsight; we'd have been able to put our thoughts very publicly in the Senedd should these regulations have been brought forward at the time they were brought in.

And that is a point I've made myself: it's important for democracy that we get things right and do things in the right order. But to argue now that what was evidenced properly at the time was wrong is a very good example of the misuse of hindsight, I think.

We will be voting for the Government's amendment because all it does, I think, is set out the process of lifting those restrictions that has already been announced and has started to be implemented indeed.

I think it's worth outlining once again the principles that I and fellow Members of Plaid Cymru have been led by over the past two years. We need those restrictions and regulations in place that are stringent enough to respond to the health risks that we face, but we also need to ensure that there aren't more restrictions than are needed in place because of the impact that they have on well-being, on mental health, on the economy, on hospitality, and so on. I have encouraged the Government to push the envelope in terms of what can be allowed and the normalcy that we all are craving. A week ago, before this motion was introduced, I was calling on the Minister to focus on what we were hoping were very hopeful signs in the statistics—it turned out that they were very promising—and to be able to prepare to lift these restrictions as soon as possible. And I think the Welsh Government has done just that on this occasion.

Rhun, can you bear with me a second, please? Janet, you've got your hand up. Do you want an intervention? Rhun, are you prepared to take another intervention?

Of course.

Thank you. Rhun, I'm baffled, because as far as I'm aware and the argument we have made as the Welsh Conservatives is that we hadn't seen a technical advisory cell at the time—we didn't see any evidence at the time. So, please put on record the evidence that was there that, somehow, we as elected Members have not been made aware of.

Well, I think from my experience and from the experience of colleagues of yours, I know there has been open dialogue that you can have with advisers to Government, and we have it through health committee and so on. Plus, we were talking about a global wave and global evidence of an impending wave of a new variant that we knew nothing about, that you might think you know everything about now, Janet, but you didn't at that time. And this was a response to how to keep safe, and I'm convinced that it was the right thing to do and I think it's borne out also in the statistics on the number of hospitalisations and so on that we've seen in Wales. Nobody wants any of these regulations; let's remind ourselves of that. But at times, throughout the past two years, measures have had to be put in place, and I believe that these were reasonable measures to have been put in place in response to the threat that I certainly was clear was being communicated to us in different ways, although, absolutely, I agree that we need to be voting on them as close to the time of implementation—ideally before their implementation, of course, though, sometimes, responses from Government have to be very, very quick.

I will bring my comments to a conclusion by looking ahead. We need to adhere to the same principles that I've mentioned about doing enough but not too much. In terms of the self-isolation time: bring it down as much as possible, but only when the evidence allows that to be done safely, and I hope that that can happen soon, of course. We have to remember that we are still living in a time of pandemic and that strengthening those elements, perhaps where the Government has been too slow to take action, is more important than ever—ensuring that we ventilate so that any future waves don't have a major impact, and that we have that ventilation guidance in schools and so on. We are clearly in a more promising position now, and the right decision has been made to lift certain restrictions, but we have to be vigilant still. We need to continue to prepare, we need to put preventative steps in place and respond quickly and appropriately to a changing situation. That is what will enable us to be as resilient as possible in facing future problems.

I'm pleased to have the opportunity to contribute in this important debate, as we've endured yet another round of damaging and senseless restrictions.

The First Minister and the health Minister's approach on messaging since the omicron variant arrived in Wales has been chaotic and contradictory. It has increased fear and it could be argued that it was a political decision in some respects. Most worryingly, most of these decisions didn't seem to be based on science, with a quite obvious lack of evidence to back up any decisions being made. There is a fine balance when weighing up the balance of harms, when we're making these tough decisions and they are tough decisions—everyone recognises that. But when they are decisions with such huge implications on lives and livelihoods, some degree of explanation coupled with evidence is needed to explain why you are, in some cases, destroying someone's business by taking a specific decision.

Once again, the immediate reaction of this Welsh Government to the new variant was to hastily shut businesses and take away freedoms. It comes as no surprise to me as we have a First Minister who has spent his career theorising about socialism instead of running a business or having to worry about paying staff. The decision to move back to level 2 forced outdoor spectator sports events to close their doors once again to fans, and other community sports events and gatherings were referred to as 'superspreader events', despite no evidence being presented, which understandably created outrage. These restrictions prevented more than 50 people partaking in sports outdoors, yet the same restrictions allowed for more than 50 people to be present in an indoor environment, providing that they are seated, where ventilation would be far lower. It is no wonder that people were angry and fed up with these nonsensical restrictions on our lives.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I couldn't understand why the Welsh Government refused to publish the evidence behind their decision, however seeing the data for myself and looking across at how England fared without restrictions, I can now see why. Welsh people and businesses cannot plan for the future or live their lives while the Welsh Government continues to enforce draconian—

Laura, will you take an intervention?

[Inaudible.]—without releasing any evidence. Yes, I will.

Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Another rugby one?

Well, no, actually, because, Laura, we're all fed up to the back teeth with the measures in response to COVID. Every one of us is, because of the impact on our families, on businesses and so on. But one of the lessons, wouldn't you agree, that we learnt from earlier waves of this pandemic is of the need to proceed with caution and also to proceed, I have to say, early to take interventions, in order to prevent worse outcomes? And can I just refer you to the Office for National Statistics survey data for last week, which shows that the prevalence now amongst Welsh communities is one in 25, compared to one in 20 across England and the rest of the UK? If that has saved pressures on the NHS, saved lives, and now allows us to open businesses earlier, is that, in hindsight, something that even with the difficulty of this, might be well worth something, that was not nonsensical, but, actually, was a fine judgment and probably the right one?

No, I do take that these things are a fine judgment, as I outlined earlier, and it is difficult—they are difficult decisions, balancing the harms. But it was clear from the figures, Huw, that the hospitalisations were down and the figures were coming that way. If you looked at the evidence of what's happening in London with the same variant, and in South Africa, there was a clear trend of what was probably going to happen, which, actually, is now what we're seeing has happened.

The hospitality sector has been under siege constantly from this Welsh Government, with a lack of support and the reintroduction of this rule of six. An estimated 86,000 jobs have been lost from the cultural night-time industry, and these new measures had an average cost to businesses of £45,000 over the festive period.

Research in December from the University College London demonstrated that people were twice as likely to catch COVID while shopping compared to being in a pub or cinema. Restrictions cannot be introduced just for the sake of it, and in light of the omicron variant being far milder, alongside the advancement of the roll-out of the booster programme, I do have to question the rationale behind the Welsh Government's decisions, especially in the continued absence of evidence.

While I am pleased that the Welsh Government has listened to the Welsh Conservatives, as Russell said earlier, and has heeded our calls to ease restrictions, we are still having to wait weeks for these changes, all because Mark Drakeford wants to save face and not call any u-turn. No consideration has been given at all to mental health and well-being, and to our Welsh economy. It is time we look to the future and start rebuilding our lives and the Welsh economy. We need a detailed road map to recovery now, not the constant insecurity that this Welsh Government has delivered throughout the pandemic.

We need to plan to learn to live with COVID, we need to keep children in schools and support them to get back on track. We need to scrap COVID passports, and we need to support our NHS and staff on clearing the backlog of waiting lists. The recovery in Wales is going to take time, and I appreciate that, but the Welsh Government needs to realise that it is time to live with COVID and focus on securing our economic future. If there is evidence stating that we need certain restrictions, fine, but this Welsh Government are clearly wrong with these latest restrictions.

It is good to see things changing finally. I really hope that we will hear more tomorrow on masks in classrooms and more restrictions being lifted sooner. Quite simply, it's time to try to start providing reassurances rather than more threats of job-crushing restrictions. We need to learn to live with COVID. This was an important debate to have today still, even though, in a way, it's outdated. It would be good to be able to debate restrictions and vote on them before they happen in the future. Thank you.

The Welsh Labour Government's most recent restrictions have been controversial, contradictory and full of loopholes that have caused untold damage to the economy of our country, as well as our vital hospitality industry, individuals, businesses and organisations, who have all been hit hard by these sets of restrictions. After weeks of Welsh Conservative calls to ease these restrictions, and, as Huw Irranca said, even if it was from upper 12 in the millennium stadium, I'm pleased that the Cabinet of the Welsh Labour Government finally put a plan in place on 14 January. However, we need more than this and greater certainty going forward.

The Welsh Labour Government deterred the public from visiting our hospitality venues in the run-up to Christmas, yet it provided pitiful support. Pubs and restaurants spent thousands and thousands of pounds on food and were well stocked for the festive period, much of which has been wasted at a cost to the wider supply chain. What is all the more hard for those individuals and businesses caught up in these restrictions is to learn that the Welsh Labour Government is still sitting on a war chest of cash, cash meant to be there to support our local businesses and the connecting industries hit by these restrictions. Out of the £500 million war chest, only £120 million has been made available for businesses. This figure is grossly inadequate, considering the Welsh Government has brought in restrictions at a time when these businesses are traditionally busy.

During Christmas and the new year period, millions of pounds flew out of Wales, with individuals travelling to England to enjoy the Christmas festivities and new year celebrations, all at a time when some businesses in Wales, such as nightclubs, were shut and others with tough restrictions. These restrictions were brought in on doomsday predictions, and all they have done is spell potential doom for the economy of our country. It is now time to learn to live with COVID, as the UK Government have set out today, as we start to return to normal. And I hope that the Minister will set out clearly the Welsh Government's route back to pre-pandemic times.

Because of the success of the booster jab roll-out, 90 per cent fewer patients have been admitted to UK hospitals. In Wales, two thirds of people have had their booster jabs, highlighting that, because of the tireless efforts of NHS staff, GPs and pharmacists and a public willingness, Wales should now be turning the corner on restrictions, and it's only right to commend the Welsh Government on the roll-out of the booster jabs. COVID has cost many lives and my heart goes out to all those people who have lost loved ones and friends. We must learn from the mistakes of the pandemic. We must have a specific COVID inquiry in Wales and I think the UK Government should change its position here and encourage Wales and the First Minister to have our own public inquiry here in Wales. 

We are now, hopefully, turning a corner with COVID. We have made the sacrifices to keep the public safe, but now is the time when we must give people hope. The press must end their scare tactics and all Governments must start the process of governing the country and tackling issues other than COVID. We owe it to everyone, right across Wales and across the country, to return people's freedoms and return people's hope. I would urge all Members to support our motion this afternoon. Diolch, Deputy Llywydd.

I wish to refer Members to my own declaration of interest form. Well, I certainly welcome the update that's now been provided to the technical advice, with the modelling appearing more positively to show that the peak of this omicron wave could now be behind us. And I think we all welcome that. With the total number of patients in hospital falling and the total number of admissions to hospitals decreasing for more than a week, now is the time that I think the Welsh Government needs to look more proactively to be looking to bring forward a long-term recovery road map. 

Sadly, Wales still remains an outlier when it comes to public health policy. Despite the detailed scientific evidence from South Africa, it does remain a central concern of many businesses that Welsh Government Ministers, in their opinion, have overreacted to omicron, and this has caused significant pain to families and much anguish to our businesses. The currently proposed timeline means that our indoor hospitality businesses will have another two weeks of restrictions, driving the Welsh pound across the border to England, and we all know of instances where this happened on new year's eve. 

The chief executive of the Welsh Beer and Pub Association has estimated that, on average, pubs have lost £16,000 each over the current period of restrictions. I went to the hairdressers the other day and there were two chairs out of action, with tape on, because of the 2m distancing. And believe me, the owner of the hairdressing salon was distraught when she told me how much an hour she was losing on those two chairs.

Given the research from University College London, submitted to SAGE in December, suggesting that people were twice as likely to catch COVID whilst out shopping, compared to being in a pub or a cinema, when no restrictions were in place, will the Welsh Government apologise now to the hospitality industry for getting it wrong with the rule of six restriction? And why on earth didn't the First Minister last week drop the 2m ruling so that businesses can actually maximise the income that they can achieve? A wave of cancellations continues to bite into the viability of our hospitality and tourism sectors. Now, whilst it is understandable that consumer behaviour has changed, the unprecedented strain felt by businesses is actually putting their own livelihoods, their own mental health and well-being, and employment opportunities for some, at a huge risk.

In conversations with many local businesses, it is apparent that clarity is still needed as to why they are required to provide evidence of a 50 per cent reduction in income, when we know that a far smaller reduction can be hugely detrimental. This is especially the case when one considers that the festive period can account to around 20 per cent of a business's annual turnover. There are also legitimate concerns from small self-catering accommodation owners about their eligibility, with the Welsh Government having stopped local authorities from having discretion to give any grants to self-catering businesses that accommodate 29 people or less, and I'm glad that the First Minister took that point I raised yesterday seriously and he's going to look at that. I would also ask whether you would look to make more money available for the businesses that have suffered due to their omicron response, particularly as the UK Government provided an additional £270 million in December, which was on top of the amount announced at the autumn budget.

How Wales begins to live with COVID-19 in the future now remains firmly on the public's mind, as Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour shadow Secretary for health have themselves outlined. The UK had to learn to live with COVID for the sake of our children. Professor John Watkins, a senior epidemiologist, has also said that Wales should look to align with England—

Janet, I have an intervention request. Will you take one?

Yes, of course, yes.

Mabon.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Janet is the third speaker from the Conservatives to talk about learning to live with this disease. What level of deaths is acceptable to you?

At the end of the day, we all regret any single death, Mabon. But we have to realise now that, in line with other countries—. If you look at England and what they're doing, they're able to keep the economy going whilst also protecting people's lives. So, we have to stop wanting to do things differently, just because it's seen to be better. There's been no advice or evidence at the time that these restrictions were brought in, and I actually concur with my colleagues that we should have had a say on this. We could have done it on Zoom over the Christmas period. But I'm afraid all this is now in retrospect.

With over 1.8 million boosters and third doses having been administered in Wales, now is the time to boost the confidence of businesses and the public after two years of restrictions. I have residents asking me what has been the point of these vaccines—

You need to conclude now, Janet.

—when the Welsh Government still wants to keep in place draconian measures, taking our freedoms and our liberties. I ask the First Minister to, actually, in his next announcement, be more brave and allow the people of Wales to go about their own lives. Thank you. Diolch.

I call on the Deputy Minister, Dawn Bowden.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to be able to respond today to this debate, and would say at the outset that the Welsh Government rejects the overall motion that's before us today. But I am also delighted to see that the latest evidence supports our plan to move to alert level 0, as set out in our amendment. From a personal point of view, I'm particularly looking forward to seeing sporting events return in the normal way, and, as Ministers have made clear throughout our engagement with the sectors affected, nobody in Welsh Government wants to hold on to pandemic protections for any longer than they are necessary, and it is a cause for shame that the Welsh Conservatives continually suggest otherwise. Their arguments often slip into suggestions that there are some ulterior motives driving decisions in Wales, which is indicative of their drift to a paranoid, negative and increasingly irrelevant form of right-wing politics, and the contribution from Laura Jones this afternoon absolutely typified that.

Llywydd, that poor judgment is leading them to talk down the responsible sacrifices made by the people of Wales in recent weeks. Prior to Christmas, Welsh Government, along with all other Governments of the UK, was presented with very worrying evidence about the spread and the speed of infections of the new omicron variant surging through our communities. That evidence was available through TAC and SAGE reports that are regularly published on the Welsh Government website and that accompanied the announcements that were made at the time. In fact, Janet Finch-Saunders, in her contribution, referred to the TAC and SAGE advice when she referred to the fact that the infection rates are coming down now. That's the same TAC advice and SAGE reports, Janet, that we were using to make the decisions on restrictions back in December. 

The public health consensus, not just—

Deputy Minister, will you take an intervention?

Go on.

Janet.

The point I have made is, at the time, we were not given any evidence or made aware—. Rhun earlier mentioned about us meeting with public health officials. We did meet with public health officials—last week. This is not satisfactory, and we should have been far more involved in this. We should have had a vote on it over the Christmas period. There was no excuse, because we could have done it by virtual means, and I think lessons do need to be learnt by the Welsh Government. Maybe your constituents, Dawn, are not up in arms about how you value this, but I can tell you the rest of us here—

Janet, you've made your speech; this is an intervention. So, you're asking a question of her, the Deputy Minister.

Okay, well the residents in Aberconwy are not happy at all.

The answer is what I've already given. The TAC advice and the SAGE advice were available at the time that we made those decisions. As I said, the public health consensus, not just in Wales but across the UK, was that it was unlikely that the booster programme alone would prevent a significant burden of direct COVID-related harm in the period immediately after Christmas and we needed to do more as we ramped up the vaccination and booster programme. In fact, the evidence that we had at that time was telling us that the restrictions that we should introduce should go further than the alert level 2 that we introduced. It was suggesting to us—in fact, recommending to us—that we should consider alert level 4. The reason we couldn't go to alert level 4 was because the UK Government wouldn't allow the funding of a furlough scheme required for us to be able to implement alert level 4, because, as we know, the UK Government only offer levels of support when it's needed in England and not when it's needed in other, devolved nations.

The introduction of protective measures at alert level 2 in December helped us to do just that. It helped flatten the curve of infections and it gave us more time to vaccinate people, while at the same time keeping as many businesses as possible open and preventing the NHS from becoming overwhelmed. 

Deputy Minister, will you take another intervention?

I'm not taking any more interventions, Dirprwy Lywydd.

So, the argument that the actions taken by the people of Wales had no impact on the transmission of omicron is not only offensive, but it is not borne out by the facts. Indeed, we now see that the latest ONS figures show that the rate of infections in Wales is much lower than England, with Wales infection rates currently standing at 3.7 per cent, compared to 5.7 per cent in England, and that is despite the fact that, unlike England, we count those who've been reinfected in our statistics. So, as Huw Irranca-Davies said in his intervention, that means that in Wales we've seen one in 25 infected, compared to one in 20 in England. So, please, let's just nail down this nonsense that measures that we've taken here have no effect on our infection rates.

Llywydd, despite good news today on infection rates—

Excuse me a second. It's virtual, so—. Darren Millar's asking, and the Minister has already indicated she's not taking any more interventions. 

No, I'm not taking any further interventions, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm not taking any further interventions, no. 

Sorry, Deputy Minister.

Llywydd, despite the good news today on infection rates, families have still lost loved ones to COVID in recent weeks, and people in every community across Wales have continued to make difficult sacrifices to help keep themselves and their loved ones safe. Their efforts have ensured that Wales is emerging from this omicron wave in a stronger position. And all the while, we watched the alternative approach, favoured by the Welsh Conservatives, play out in England.

It was characterised by the now-familiar confusion of a UK Government that is unable to act. The spectacle of press conferences cancelled after Cabinet meetings because of failure to decide eventually fell into a choice not to act. As the First Minister said, what we saw and continue to see is a UK Government paralysed by division in its ranks, leading England to be an outlier in the UK when it comes to protecting its citizens. Not for the first time, the internal politics of the Conservative Party were treated as a greater priority then the well-being of a nation. And isn't it remarkable that after the events of recent weeks, the Welsh Conservatives honestly believe that the Welsh Government ought to follow the leadership and the examples set by the Prime Minister? A Prime Minister who broke the rules, broke the law, lied to Parliament and the British people, a Prime Minister who partied while the country made sacrifices, while people couldn't see loved ones, and while people died.

The Welsh Conservatives could, of course, choose to propose an approach of their own, and they could do this without fear of upsetting their masters in London because, as we now know, their masters in London don't even know who they are, and which does of course beg the question: if your own leadership doesn't take you seriously, why should this Senedd, this Government, or the people of Wales take you seriously? Or they could follow the lead of Christian Wakeford MP, the MP for Bury South, who crossed the floor today to join a party that does take this issue seriously. Or they could join Tory MP David Davis and call on their Prime Minister, who has failed this country so miserably, to quit now or, to quote him more accurately,

'In the name of God, go.'

Any of these actions would be preferable than the toadying actions that we've seen from them up to now.

Llywydd, our approach has been consistently guided by the evidence, so I am sorry to disappoint Russell and James and Laura and everybody else who's spoken from the Tory side this afternoon that your views were not the views that we took into account when making our decision—it was the evidence that was presented to us. And where we believed that England had taken the wrong course, we did not shy away from acting decisively and differently to keep Wales safe. On test and trace and PPE, we've delivered better outcomes at lower costs. This approach allowed us to redirect hundreds of millions into business support via the economic resilience fund, which does not exist in England.

Deputy Minister, you need to conclude now.

The interim findings of a survey conduced by Cardiff University show that 85 per cent of respondents agreed that support from the economic resilience fund was as important as furlough.

So, to be clear, we did not take the most recent decisions to move to alert level 2 without considering the business consequences or the consequences for our culture, arts and sports sectors, which is why we introduced £120 million of packages for businesses, £15.5 million for the cultural sector, and £3 million of support for affected sports. And those funds also recognised the impact of the public's more cautious behaviour that began before the measures were introduced. So, the support will take effect from 13 December, before those measures were introduced. As Rhun ap Iorwerth said, omicron is still very much with us and levels of coronavirus are still incredibly high, but I am pleased that this Government took the decisive actions that we did at the time, which allowed us to keep Wales safe and move on our path to alert level 0.

In conclusion, Llywydd, I'm proud that this Welsh Government continues with its cautious, evidence-led approach to managing this pandemic, which has made our First Minister, Mark Drakeford, the most popular political leader in the UK, who continues to have the support and confidence of the majority of people in Wales. But, like everyone else, I look forward to the gradual return to more normality in the coming weeks and I look forward to going to watch the Scarlets and Bristol Bears playing on Saturday. Diolch yn fawr. 

I call on Gareth Davies to reply to the debate. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Deputy Llywydd, and thank you to everyone who took part in this debate this afternoon. Possibly what the Deputy Minister might have forgotten is that there's one more Welsh Conservative to speak to close the debate, so I will come on to responding to some of the points the Deputy Minister made later on in my winding-up speech.

So, next week will mark the two-year anniversary of the World Health Organization declaring the outbreak of a novel coronavirus in mainland China a public health emergency of international concern, and the anniversary of the Foreign Office advising against travel to the Wuhan province of China. Since that time, we have seen the biggest curtailment of freedoms and civil liberties ever witnessed in peacetime, all in an effort to prevent the spread of what we now know as COVID-19. While this was justified at the beginning, as we were waiting for treatments and vaccines to be developed in order to protect the most vulnerable, now, as we enter our third year of restrictions, and with over 90 per cent of the adult population vaccinated against COVID, can we continue to say that such curbs are necessary? Can we really justify draconian restrictions on our freedoms?

We know full well that measures such as those recently reinstated by the Welsh Government are doing harm, real harm, to the people of Wales. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who can honestly say that the past two years haven't impacted their mental well-being. How many children will never recover from the damage done to their education and development due to school closures? How many families have been forced into poverty because restrictions have forced businesses to cease trading? How many generations will be forced to live with the debts racked up to deal with the impact of lockdowns? We spent, and continue to spend, eye-watering amounts during the past two years in order to shut down large parts of our economy. Think how those billions could have been spent. We could have had a first-grade social care sector, for starters. We can't carry on doing this forever and the SARS-CoV-2 virus is not going away. We have to learn to live with it, and I may be the fourth or fifth to say that now from the Welsh Conservatives, so you might want to tick that one off as well on the Plaid Cymru benches.

We can protect the vulnerable by ensuring that they are fully vaccinated and have immediate access to COVID treatment should they get sick. But the rest of us have to get on with our lives. We can't go into lockdown every bad flu season. Yes, COVID is worse than the flu, but only to the unvaccinated and the most vulnerable. For everyone else, there isn't much difference. 

Recent lockdowns have not stopped the disease from spreading, so why does this Welsh Government immediately go for the nuclear option every time there is a new variant? Enough is enough, and it's time we learned to live with COVID. We need a road map to recovery and a—

Gareth, will you take an intervention?

Yes, certainly.

Rhun.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. I've got to come in here and say I am frankly disgusted with the Conservatives' attitude in this debate this afternoon. It's the most COVID-denying, the most dismissive of the realities of the losses of the past couple of years, that I have ever heard. Are you ashamed that you're a party whose own leader rubbed our faces in it through his flagrant disregard for the sacrifices all of us have had to make? Do you really think that what we should be doing now is just wishing somehow that this had never happened? Is that the best that the right-wing Welsh Conservatives have got to offer now?

Quite frankly, I'm quite disgusted in the Member for Ynys Môn and Plaid Cymru's stance on this whole issue, as they've decided to abstain from voting on this. They say it's all hindsight and that it doesn't matter, but then in the next breath they say, 'Oh, we're still living with COVID and we're dealing with such pertinent issues.' So, I think you've got a bit of an internal battle there as to which road you're going down. So, I think it's quite rich for the Member for Ynys Môn to be calling the Welsh Conservatives' stance disgusting when they're not prepared to take a stance on it themselves.

At the weekend, the Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer unveiled his party's 10-point living with COVID plan, and demanded an end to lockdowns. A string of shadow Ministers did the media rounds, criticising the UK's plan B as unnecessary. Yet here in Wales we have a Welsh Labour Government implementing more stringent measures at every juncture. The Welsh Government needs to urgently unveil its own 10-point plan and rule out future lockdowns.

As my colleague Russell George outlined when opening the debate, he welcomed the Welsh Government delivering on the Welsh Conservatives' demand for a road map out of lockdown restrictions, and we welcome a road map to more liberty, to more freedoms. He mentioned some of the effects on businesses and that each pub in Wales is due to lose £16,000, and some of the issues near the border, with people travelling to Shrewsbury from his own constituency, and to Chester from mine, just to have a night out and a little bit of freedom for a weekend or so. It's not too much to ask when the evidence supports it, I don't think.

Laura mentioned about the chaos, the political side of the decisions not based on science, the draconian element of it, the balance of harm and some of the details in lifting some of the restrictions—

You will need to conclude now.

Sorry, Deputy Llywydd. And then, Deputy Minister, I was very disappointed to see a Welsh Government politicise the whole issue and create divisions along the border, saying it's all the UK Government's fault. You are the Welsh Government, you have the devolved powers. You've wanted from day one for this to be a devolved matter to Wales, and yet you decide to respond to a COVID-19 debate and politicise the whole thing and talk about division. And that's so true of the Welsh Government, of how they've handled this whole pandemic and why we need to have a COVID-19 inquiry specific to Wales.

I urge Members to reject the Welsh Government's amendment and to support our motion tonight. We need to get Wales open and well on the path to recovery, and let's put the past two years firmly behind us. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is an objection. I will therefore defer voting until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.