The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 3 and 4 in the name of Siân Gwenllian, and amendment 2 in the name of Lesley Griffiths. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.

The next item this afternoon is the second Welsh Conservative debate on adverse childhood experiences. I call on Gareth Davies to move the motion.

Motion NDM7905 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the impact that adverse childhood experiences have on health, educational attainment and substance abuse later on in life.

2. Believes that greater focus should be given to preventing child abuse and neglect than dealing with the outcomes.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to set a target of reducing child abuse, neglect and other adverse childhood experiences by 70 per cent by 2030.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Deputy Llywydd, and I'm honoured to formally move the motion, tabled in the name of Darren Millar, and to open this debate on such an important but difficult topic.

Like many of us here in this Chamber, I pledged my support for the WAVE Trust's target of a 70 per cent reduction in adverse childhood experiences by the end of this decade. During the last Senedd, almost every Member supported the 70/30 pledge. In fact, the only ones who did not support setting targets to tackle child abuse were Welsh Government Ministers, even though the former First Minister, Carwyn Jones, told the Chamber that he supported the work of the WAVE Trust.

We have a real opportunity before us today. We can re-affirm our commitment to the 70/30 target and put Wales on a path to becoming one of the leading nations when it comes to tackling adverse childhood experiences. Adverse childhood experiences, or ACEs, can have such devastating impacts on individuals. They raise the risk of poor physical and mental health, contribute to poorer educational outcomes and lead to shorter life expectancies. We have all seen the stats and believe we understand the issues, but it's not until you speak to victims to hear their story that you can truly grasp the scale of the problems facing many children, young people and adults. The trauma impacts and drives their lives off their tracks.

One such victim shared their harrowing story with me. They were sexually abused at the age of 12. This horrific experience was compounded as the rape resulted in pregnancy and then a miscarriage. The trauma continued throughout her young life. More sexual assaults followed as did two teenage pregnancies. The individual did not finish their formal education and turned to drink and drugs. She ended up addicted to heroin and said she contemplated taking her life more than once.

Throughout this traumatic ordeal, she cried out for help. The only help she received was anti-depressants. When she became pregnant, again, she asked for help with addiction, only to be prescribed Subutex with little regard for the impact this could have had upon her unborn child. All through this multiple-decade ordeal, she reached out to many agencies for help. Over 150 different departments and people interacted with her, yet none offered support without judgment. One of her older children went on to abuse drugs and alcohol.

It was only when she heard about WAVE Trust and learnt about adverse childhood experiences that she took action to turn her life around. Without help, she kicked the heroin habit all by herself and is proud to be two years sober. She did this for her children, but we continue to let her and them down. She has been prescribed trauma therapy, but told there is more than a two-year wait.

She hopes, by sharing her story, she can help prevent anyone else living with the same hell as she has been through. She fell through the cracks, as did her children. She didn’t get help for her child because she lived in the wrong postcode, as she resided in a perceived affluent area that didn't qualify for Flying Start nor Families First.

How can this happen in a modern Wales? I really don’t know, but what I do know is that we have to take action, and that journey starts with us officially adopting the 70/30 target. It won’t magically fix everything, but it will focus minds. Welsh Government have been reluctant to adopt 70/30 because it's both not ambitious enough nor fully in the Government's ambit. This didn’t stop the Scottish Government, and it shouldn’t stop us. And if we are going to put an end to the abuse and trauma impacting children’s lives, then we have to take the first step.

My party pledges to make a 70 per cent reduction in adverse childhood experiences by 2030. Will you?

I have selected the four amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on Heledd Fychan to move amendments 1, 3 and 4, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian, and to speak to them.

Amendment 1—Siân Gwenllian

Delete all after point 1, and replace with:

Believes that tackling distress during childhood and early intervention must be prioritised in order to give the best start to all children in Wales.

Notes the evidence that there has been an increase in adverse childhood experiences as a result of COVID-19.

Amendment 3—Siân Gwenllian

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that there will be clear targets in the adverse childhood experiences plan that will be published this summer to measure its effectiveness.

Amendment 4—Siân Gwenllian

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to incorporate the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child fully into Welsh law.

Amendments 1, 3 and 4 moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to formally move our amendments today, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian, and I'd like to thank the Conservatives for bringing this debate forward on such an important issue. The purpose of our amendments is to strengthen the motion so that we see the long-term action that's required to tackle this issue, and I regret the fact that the WAVE Trust isn't specifically named in the original motion. Certainly, we are entirely supportive as a party in terms of having specific targets, but targets alone mean nothing unless we also see real change.

I'd like to focus my contribution particularly on the impact of the pandemic in exacerbating a situation that was already extremely concerning in terms of the level of the impact that we saw on children and young people.

During the COVID-19 pandemic, public health measures such as lockdown and social distancing restrictions have been essential to contain the virus and protect the health of the population. However, for some people, this has increased exposure to harm within the home and online, whilst reducing access to care and support from services. In particular, this has placed children and young people at risk, with the potential for increased exposure to adverse childhood experiences and violence that has the potential to have long-term consequences.

There are several ways in which ACEs may have been exacerbated by the social isolation, job loss, school closures and other stressors unleashed by the pandemic. Firstly, the pandemic may have increased intrafamilial adversity, exposing children to increased parental anxieties, especially those associated with job loss, food insecurity and housing insecurity. Such stresses may linger for months or years. Secondly, by amplifying toxic stress, increasing family adversity may impair child brain development, particularly during early years. We've seen trauma through losing loved ones. We've also seen that the pandemic and its response are disproportionately affecting low-income and ethnic minority populations, which are already at increased risk for ACE-impacted chronic conditions like pre-term birth, diabetes, hypertension and chronic lung disease. 

The United Nations have projected that there will be over 1 million preventable child deaths globally as a result of the indirect impact of the pandemic on children and young people. These are harrowing statistics. We must act swiftly. We must act now to support our children and young people, and I hope colleagues from across the political divide today can support our amendment so that we work together to support our children and young people. 

I call on the Deputy Minister for Social Services, Julie Morgan, to formally move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. 

Amendment 2—Lesley Griffiths

Delete point 3.

Amendment 2 moved.

Formally.

As many Members will know, ACEs and a trauma-informed approach are an area and a topic that I'm passionate about. Just last year I wrote a piece co-authored with Charlotte from Platfform, a mental health charity, about the need for a kinder and more trauma-informed approach in all of our public services. I know many Members share this interest with me, and I do often reflect, as the Prif Weinidog Mark Drakeford did yesterday, about the role my dad played in promoting ACEs and the agenda in Wales.

I do welcome the Conservatives bringing this motion forward today, and I thank Darren Millar for that, but I do want to have a wider discussion about the importance of prevention. It's not just about reducing, though; I believe it's about helping people who have been through trauma. And at the heart of trauma lies poverty. You cannot be trauma-informed and support, for instance, the current welfare system, which is so inflexible and traumatising. The punitive nature of this system is the very opposite of trauma-informed. It causes anxiety and it causes desperation.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I heard a statistic from one of my Welsh Labour colleagues this morning. She spoke in a debate, and she stated that 94 per cent of benefit decisions—94 per cent—in her constituency that go to appeal are turned over. That's not a trauma-informed approach, that will not reduce the occurrences of ACEs. But, of course, again today, this is not mentioned in the motion from the Welsh Conservatives because they do support the chaos this causes to households across the nation. It's worth noting, Deputy Presiding Officer, that the motion is silent again on the cost-of-living crisis and the accompanying misery that it will cause many. So, as I said, Deputy Presiding Officer, I do want the wider conversation on ACEs, and it's important that we're having this debate in our Parliament today, but we have to—

Will you take an intervention?

Yes, I will.

I just wanted to highlight that the most important thing about the Platfform thing is to move away to a trauma-informed approach, so that we're not saying, 'What's wrong with you?', but saying, 'What happened to you, and how can we help rectify it?' Would you agree with that?

I thank the Member, Jenny Rathbone, for that intervention. She's absolutely right; I do agree with Platfform and their campaign to lead a trauma-informed approach, because it's right. When we look at, for example, the welfare system, that's a system that's set up to fail ordinary people. So, I do want that conversation to go on. But I do think we have to have an honest assessment that the link between ACEs and poverty is very clear, so let's not bury our heads in the sand here. I will finish up, Presiding Officer. Let's work together constructively and honestly to bring together a trauma-informed nation in Wales. Diolch.

Again, I thank Gareth for bringing this important debate to the floor of the Senedd today—it's crucially important for children the length and breadth of our country. The crime survey for England and Wales estimated that one in 100 adults—nearly half a million people aged 18 to 74—have experienced physical neglect before the age of 16. To compound this, there were 160,000 offences related to child physical abuse recorded by police in England, Wales and Northern Ireland in 2019-20, and we saw worrying rises, as was outlined earlier, during lockdowns, with the pandemic exacerbating an already worrying problem.

This is just a glimpse into the challenge that we face here in Wales to combat adverse childhood experiences. We have to make it a priority to protect our children and following generations, as we can all see clearly the enormous and devastating effect that trauma, as has been outlined, has on educational performance and life outcomes. Increased adverse childhood experiences are associated with an increase in prevalence of no qualifications and a decreased prevalence of higher education qualifications. When we fail these children in their formative years, we usually set them up to fail for life, something that cannot be allowed to continue. We should be striving to be world leaders in child protection, which in turn would improve our educational outcomes. If we fail, the evidence shows us what can and usually does happen.

The English Department for Education undertook a review into the international evidence on the impact of abuse and neglect on children. The evidence in the review suggested that maltreated children are at greater risk of poor school behaviour, greater risk of being the victims of bullying in school, more likely to have special educational needs, at greater risk of exclusion from school, and more likely to be absent from school. The onus is really now on the Welsh Government to say 'enough is enough' and deal with the root causes of adverse childhood experiences, because if we carry on failing the youngest and most vulnerable, then we fail collectively as a society.

I just want to reaffirm what Gareth said earlier: it's on you, Welsh Minister and Welsh Government, now to reaffirm that commitment to the 70/30 target, because that would be a really good place to start. Thank you.  

As Members of the Senedd, it may be that some of us are living with one or more of the seven ACEs. Sometimes we can cope with them, and sometimes we can't. Having had over 25 years of working in child protection, with many of those years at the front line, I could recount many, many children and young people that I've met where the cycle of abuse and poverty, as Jack has told us about, continues on into the next generation, with little hope and expectation of change. Therefore, thank you for this debate, and I dearly hope we have an opportunity to work together across political parties to change things.

I was pleased yesterday to have been elected chair of the cross-party group on children and families, and we will be putting ACEs and trauma-informed practice on the agenda, so I welcome all interest in this issue. The second issue we discussed was the incorporation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into domestic law. I was delighted that the current children's commissioner, Sally Holland, was able to join us at the meeting, and she made a clarion call for us all to adopt the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. She said that policy initiatives come and go, but the only way we ensure that we make progress for our children is through ensuring legal entitlements and enforceable rights. So, I'm pleased to see the amendment from Plaid Cymru advocating for this position, because a rights-based approach to preventing trauma is absolutely essential.

ACEs are a tragedy. I'd like to thank all of those staff who work at the front line to do their best to change the lives of children and young people, and give huge gratitude to those children and families who strive to change their lives when they are living in desperate and challenging situations. You deserve more. Let this be a recognition that all of us, whatever political party we are part of, see our role in changing what we do to make sure you get the support and help you need. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

A sizeable and worrying contributing factor to the attainment gap is the issue of mental health and well-being in our children, and last year a Cardiff University report found that around 19 per cent of young people in Wales reported very high levels of mental health symptoms before the COVID-19 pandemic. Schools have made clear that they are not adequately equipped to cope with demand for necessary support, despite going above and beyond to implement whole-school approaches to provision. The children's commissioner's 'No Wrong Door' report endorsed a joined-up system where professionals can come together to find out what help they can offer, allowing flexible care to be delivered to meet needs. This is especially pressing given that figures for July 2021 showed that 432 patients out of a total of 720 were waiting four weeks or more for their first appointment for specialist child and adolescent mental health services. 

Minister, in light of the pressures exposed again by the pandemic, and for those children with adverse experiences, what steps can you commit to undertake to ensure there is a sufficiently resourced 'no wrong door' approach with tie-in between services across the board as a means of reducing child abuse and adverse experiences by 70 per cent by 2030? Barnardo's say that the central factor impacting mental health in north Wales was a stressful living environment, with an increase in the number of children turning to the use of cannabis as an alternative to addressing their trauma. I have huge numbers of young children in families that have been living in so-called temporary accommodation for as long as 18 months, and that is also causing adverse childhood experiences.

In Conwy, I'm pleased to say that Barnardo's are funded to support families who are affected by substance and alcohol abuse as a means of addressing contributing factors, but that is dealing with the symptoms, isn't it, not the cause. The charity says it is difficult to continue with their experienced provision when staff do not know whether their position will be funded year to year. So, again, can we have some commitment as to how you're going to fund this, and give these organisations some hope? Will you collaborate with your colleague to review what steps can be taken to provide longer term funding commitment to those who are assisting in this area?

Prior to the pandemic, Wales had the highest rate of childhood obesity, with nearly 27 per cent of four to five-year-olds being overweight or obsese. When I was on the Children, Young People and Education Committee, I was part of the inquiry, and it was really frightening, some of the statistics that we witnessed. Minister, I encourage you to support our motion today and to give greater focus to preventing child abuse. Let's all work together to ensure that no child experiences any adverse treatment. Thank you. Diolch. 

I do welcome today's debate, and I'm grateful to organisations like the WAVE Trust that consistently promote and influence progressive policies like the 70/30 campaign. The trust's fundamental message is that most family violence and maltreatment can be prevented by known, economically viable programmes to break damaging family cycles. It also says extensive research highlights the crucial nature of the experience from conception to age 3—in other words, the importance of early years intervention services.

But I feel somewhat gaslit to be lectured on this by the Conservatives, a party that, since 2010, has cut, corroded and hollowed out so many of these services, not least more than 1,000 Sure Start centres in England. By contrast, Welsh Labour Governments have expanded early years support, like Flying Start and Families First. I'm delighted to see a new Flying Start and childcare service being built in Brecon, at the Priory Church in Wales site. 

We have softened the blow and ring-fenced where we can, but many, many Welsh families have been beset by years of punitive Tory tax and benefit policies. Analysis by the Equality and Human Rights Commission carried out before the pandemic found that, and I quote, 'the cumulative impact of Tory cuts and policies will have plunged 50,000 more Welsh children into poverty.' And two years ago, the Marmot review, published by the Institute of Health Equity, concluded that, and I quote:

'Austerity will cast a long shadow over the lives of the children born and growing up under its effects.'

Joyce, will you take an intervention?

In a minute. That is what the Tories have done for childhood experiences in the country. I also want to move on and talk about domestic abuse, but I'll take the intervention.

Thank you, Joyce Watson, for taking the intervention. Do you think it's appropriate to over-politicise this debate? We're discussing a very sensitive and important subject and a lot of the contributions today have been on the message of working together. Jack Sargeant mentioned it; Laura Anne Jones, Janet Finch-Saunders—

Okay, this is a speech now.

Do you think it's appropriate to over-politicise this, given the nature of what we're talking about?

Well, I'm sorry that you are a bit sensitive to the facts and that you see it only in political terms, but they were facts, and I quoted them.

And I want to move on, to conclude, with a point about domestic abuse. We all know that adverse childhood experience and violence are highly related, but there remains work to be done to ensure that children and young people are central to our ending violence strategy, because we know that in those situations in households, children and young people are victims too and the strategy must reflect that. 

But, and I'm finishing my point, I think, I commend the Minister for ending reasonable punishment against children. I was sorry, however, to hear Janet Finch-Saunders actually referring to it and calling for Welsh Government to reduce spending on this today. So, I'm sorry if you find that political, but I'm quoting one of your colleagues, who actually said that less than two hours ago.

Thank you for bringing this important debate before us today.

I understand that there are always arguments for and against setting targets, particularly when it comes to something as complex as adverse childhood experiences. The counter argument against targets is that the published data is based on reporting levels and that increased numbers aren't necessarily a bad thing, because it can mean higher levels of awareness and more protection for children. When it comes to children, however, we should do better. Targets can provide direction and motivation for change and make much-needed improvements. There would be a need to provide additional funding to enable effective monitoring, collation and comparison over time. This would, of course, pose challenges, but they are not insurmountable ones.

With regards to the call to set a target of reducing child abuse, neglect and other adverse childhood experiences by 70 per cent by 2030, this was based on guidance from expert advisers. They agreed it was achievable if the right polices and actions are taken by decision makers and those holding the purse strings. It is disappointing to see the Welsh Government delete this point without making any constructive suggestions. I hope the Minister can explain the reasoning for this during this debate.

I'd also like to raise the matter of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, as we heard from Jane Dodds earlier. Its implementation remains slow and disjointed. There exist deep inequalities that have increased in some areas, including child poverty and mental health. Around a third of Welsh children live in poverty. Child mortality is 70 per cent higher amongst the most deprived groups in Wales. This is a national disgrace, and we are calling for the Welsh Government to bring the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child fully into Welsh law. In Wales, Ministers have a due regard duty to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child under the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011, but there is no due regard duty on public bodies. 

I also want to bring up the high rate of looked-after children in state care in Wales. The rate per 100,000 in Wales is 102, which is much higher than the figure of 64 in England. Multi-agency early intervention programmes to support families must be established. Improving the health and well-being of our children should be a top priority for this Government and this institution that we all belong to. Children are vulnerable and precious. They are also our future, and we must always remember that. Diolch yn fawr. 

I call on the Deputy Minister for Social Services, Julie Morgan. 

Diolch. Welsh Ministers are committed to protecting and supporting the health and well-being of all children and young people in Wales. Wales has led the way on tackling adverse childhood experiences. Public Health Wales's findings about their prevalence and impact showed us the personal, social and economic impact that ACEs could have on individuals, their families and society as a whole. However, the findings also showed us that ACEs were not inevitable and didn't always lead to poorer outcomes or distress. The evidence also demonstrated the potential benefits of preventing adverse childhood experiences and informed our decision to prioritise tackling them in 2016, led by our colleague, Carl Sargeant. And we are very grateful for all that he did then. 

We have made significant progress. This includes establishing the adverse childhood experience support hub, a centre of expertise supporting organisations to become more trauma informed. And I'm also delighted that we have supported so many valuable community-based projects this year, helping to tackle childhood adversity and trauma, and mitigating their impact. But I absolutely recognise there is more to do, and I recognise that in the contributions that have been made here today. 

Minister, will you take an intervention?

Yes, certainly. 

Thank you. I'm very grateful for your taking the intervention. It's just about the adverse childhood experiences hub, which I'm very pleased exists in Wales, and it's good that we know it's getting on with some work in terms of sharing good practice. But it's not actually measuring the adverse childhood experiences in the population as a whole and tracking whether they are reducing or increasing. Isn't it important to measure these things so that you can stand by your claim that we're making good progress on the matter? That's why a target is necessary. 

I had a meeting, actually, yesterday, with the ACEs team, where they described the individual research that they were doing, and it seemed to me that they were measuring in that research what the impact of ACEs was and what progress it was making. So, I think perhaps we should look at that in more detail, because they're definitely doing a lot of research on those lines. But, as I said, I recognise that there is more to do.

Members will be aware that I published a written statement on 21 January, setting out the next steps, including the development of a new ACEs plan. This plan will set out the further actions we will take to tackle ACEs. It will align with our programme for government priorities and the key principles that underline all our policies, such as children's rights, safeguarding, the well-being of future generations, and tackling inequality, racism and discrimination. And I've noted the comments made about poverty here in the Chamber today. It will build on our existing work to tackle abuse and neglect, domestic violence, substance misuse and to support better mental health. 

Turning to children's rights, I'm very proud of the work that we are doing in Wales. We were the first UK Government to enshrine children's rights in law—the children's Measure was mentioned here today—and the first Government in the UK to establish a children's commissioner. I therefore welcome and am happy to support the amendment calling for the full incorporation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into Welsh law. However, there does remain a question mark over whether we have the necessary devolved legislative powers to do so in the light of the recent Supreme Court judgment on developments in Scotland. So, we are considering the implications of the judgment, and I know that the Scottish Government is also looking at those implications now. But we are certainly happy to support the amendment. 

Then, finally, I'd like to address the issue of setting a target for the reduction of ACEs. Our aim must always be to protect all children from harm. Anything less than this is simply not acceptable. A good safeguarding practice relies on consideration of the individual needs and circumstances of every child, and not on targets. And so it's not acceptable to this Government to adopt a target that might seem to suggest it's acceptable to tolerate some children being abused or neglected. For this reason, the Government does not support the setting of any target for reducing adverse childhood experiences. We don't want any children to experience adverse childhood experiences, and we will continue to strive towards giving all children in Wales the best possible start in life and the opportunities to achieve their potential regardless of their individual circumstances. Diolch. 

I call on Mark Isherwood to reply to the debate.

Diolch. Well, I've listened to the Deputy Minister and thank her for her response, but the bottom line is that this Labour Government appears set to vote against setting a target of reducing child abuse, neglect and other ACEs—adverse childhood experiences—by 70 per cent by 2030, despite this target being launched by the Worldwide Alternatives to Violence Trust, an international charity dedicated to making the world safer by reducing the root causes of violence, including child abuse, neglect and domestic violence. ACEs are potentially traumatic events that occur in childhood, affecting mental health and well-being, education and employment potential. 

Home-Start is a voluntary organisation committed to promoting the welfare of families with at least one child aged under 11. Last month, I met Home-Start Flintshire, when I heard that more than 53 per cent of the families they support have four or more ACEs, with the most common being parental separation and mental illness, closely followed by emotional neglect and domestic violence. As they told me, focus has to be on early intervention and prevention, rather than dealing with the consequences when things go wrong, adding that their service is predominantly delivered by trained volunteers whose skills, qualifications and life experiences are carefully matched to a family's needs and even down to family dynamics. They use a strength-based approach, identifying what is going well and building on this. Often, with families classed as hard to reach, this can take some time. They work with the whole family, allowing families to transition through their service and access a variety of interventions. As they say, tackling ACEs is not a quick fix and takes a holistic approach, rather than a prescriptive short parenting programme. 

We will support both the Plaid Cymru amendments. In opening the debate, Gareth Davies rightly stated that we have a real opportunity to put Wales on a path to be a world leader in tackling ACEs, but that needs a target to fill in the cracks children are falling through by adopting the 70-30 target. Heledd Fychan supported specific targets accompanied by real change, and highlighted the consequences of children being put at risk of harm in the home during lockdown. Jack Sargeant called for a kinder and more trauma-informed approach. Laura Anne Jones quoted the crime survey for England and Wales—0.5 million people have suffered physical neglect before the age of 16—and said we cannot continue setting children up to fail.

Jane Dodds spoke of her 25 years working in child protection and the cycle of abuse and poverty she witnessed, and called for us to work together across parties to change things and for a rights-based approach to preventing trauma. Janet Finch-Saunders quoted research finding that 19 per cent of young people in Wales reported high levels of mental health symptoms before the pandemic and lockdown, and the increased number of children turning to cannabis instead of being supported to tackle their trauma. Joyce Watson rightly emphasised the importance of early- years intervention services, but then sadly attempted to party politicise this important debate. And Peredur Owen Griffiths was right to say that targets can provide direction and motivation for change, and that child poverty levels in Wales are a national disgrace.

Well, preventing ACEs can help children and adults thrive and potentially stop ACEs from being passed from one generation to the next. I urge Members to support our motion accordingly, and put some teeth in the mouth of the repeatedly stated goals expressed by everybody here. Thank you. 

The Llywydd took the Chair.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection, and so I'll defer voting on the motion until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.