The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 2 and 3 in the name of Darren Millar.

The next item is the Plaid Cymru debate on stalking, and I call on Heledd Fychan to move the motion.

Motion NDM7906 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd: 

1. Regrets the increases in violence and harassment against women, noting that stalking offences reported to police increased by 30 per cent in Wales between 2020 and 2021.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) use the new curriculum and other resources to foster a culture that prevents the occurrence of stalking in the first place;

b) produce guidance for planning bodies that ensures women’s safety is considered in the design of public spaces;

c) work with Police and Crime Commissioners to improve police handling of stalking, ensuring police are trained to handle the real nature of stalking and that stalking protection orders are being utilised;

d) provides specialist support for survivors of stalking;

e) commit to pursuing the devolution of powers over policing and justice to Wales so that it can fully tackle the crime of stalking and make misogyny a hate crime in Wales.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Llywydd. Stalking is a pattern of unwanted, persistent, obsessive and intrusive behaviours by one person towards another person, causing fear of violence and distress to the person being targeted. It's easy to think of stalking as something that only happens to public figures or celebrities, such as popstars, but the reality today in the United Kingdom is that one in five women and one in 10 men will be stalked at some point in their lives. In fact, it's estimated that 1.5 million people are stalked in England and Wales every year. However, the actual numbers are likely to exceed this figure for a number of reasons, including: a lack of awareness about what stalking is; complexities regarding the individual's relationship with the offender; how stalking behaviour usually develops over time; fears for personal safety; distrust of the police and criminal justice system; previous traumatic experiences; and an unsatisfactory response by police when someone complains.

It is also alarming that, on average, it takes 100 cases of unwanted behaviours by a stalker before a person contacts the police about the matter. This is supported by research carried out by the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, which found that nearly two thirds of the stalking survivors to whom they had spoken since the start of the pandemic had not reported the matter to the police. We have seen a marked increase in stalking over the past decade, and these cases have also increased significantly over the period of the pandemic. Indeed in Wales, if you compare the figures for April to June 2020 to the figures for April to June 2021, there has been an increase of 30 per cent in the number of instances of stalking and harassment that have been recorded. In Dyfed-Powys, there was an increase of 102 per cent, an increase of 23 per cent in north Wales and 24 per cent in south Wales. In Gwent, there was a very small decrease of 1 per cent.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

In 2020, stalking support services and police forces recorded a surge in stalkers turning to online tactics to harass individuals during lockdowns, particularly in the first four weeks of the first lockdown, as people were like sitting ducks stuck in their homes. In fact, the national stalking advocacy service, Paladin, saw almost a 50 per cent increase in stalking referrals when lockdowns began. For those who were being stalked prior to the start of lockdown, nearly half of respondents to a survey confirmed an increase in online behaviours, and a third saw a rise in offline behaviours. Many respondents suggested that their stalker being isolated and bored in lockdown left them with nothing else to think about apart from their obsession. At the same time, arrests have been unable to keep up with the number of offences, as arrests only grew at half the rate of the rise in offences between 2019 and 2020.

Almost half of stalkers, when making a threat, will act upon it, especially when they are known to the individual they're stalking. Indeed, again the Suzy Lamplugh Trust have reported that in nine out of 10 femicides analysed over a three-year period, the killer displayed behaviours associated with stalking. We must act on stalking, not only for the huge impact it has on survivors, but for the threat it poses to life and the impact on the families and friends of those murdered. There have been too many deaths and too little action, discussion and education around this. We owe it to every victim to act on this serious matter.

I have selected the three amendments to the motion, and I call on Mark Isherwood to move amendments 1, 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Add as new point after point 1 and renumber accordingly:

Welcomes both the Stalking Protection Act 2019 and the amendment to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill to make misogyny a hate crime in England and Wales.

Amendment 2—Darren Millar

In point 2(c), after 'work with' insert 'police forces and'.

Amendment 3—Darren Millar

In point 2, delete sub-point (e) and replace with:

'ensure that perpetrator programmes are available across Wales'.

Amendments 1, 2 and 3 moved.

Diolch. I move amendments 1 to 3, whilst also acknowledging that there is much of merit in the original motion. The increase in stalking offences is more than a matter of regret. The new curriculum can and must foster a culture that prevents the occurrence of stalking in the first place. New guidance for planning bodies should ensure that the safety of women and others at risk, including disabled people, is considered in the design of public spaces. Providers of specialist support for survivors of stalking must also be sustainably resourced, and included in the design and delivery of related services.

Our amendment 2, calling on the Welsh Government to work with both police forces and police and crime commissioners to improve police handling of stalking, is essentially a technical amendment, which Members should therefore support. While the role of commissioner is to hold chief constables and their police force to account, chief constables and their police forces are responsible for the operational delivery of policing services.

Office for National Statistics figures published last March found that although most crime figures dropped in Wales and England during 2020, recorded stalking and harassment offences had increased by 20 per cent during the coronavirus lockdown, with the figure rising to 31 per cent as restrictions had eased in the summer of 2020. The anti-stalking charity Paladin said most victims were reporting being stalked via social media, messaging apps and e-mail, but physical stalking was also happening despite the lockdown. Paladin had also previously highlighted the lack of perpetrator programmes for stalkers. Hence our amendment 3 calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that perpetrator programmes are available across Wales.

Last December, I noted here that I was one of the three party spokespeople who took the Welsh Government to the line over the passage of the Violence Against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015, securing Welsh Government pledges in several areas, including accredited perpetrator programmes, to change the attitudes, behaviour and belief of perpetrators. As I said, during the passage of the Act, I moved amendments calling for the national strategy to include provision of at least one perpetrator programme. As Relate Cymru had told committee, 90 per cent of the partners they questioned sometime after the end of their programme said that there had been a complete stop in violence and intimidation by their partner. The Minister responded then that he did not consider my amendment appropriate, but had jointly funded research to help inform future responses to perpetrators. However, as I said in December, the only mention of perpetrators in the latest violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence national advisers annual plan refers to exploring a blueprint for the whole system that aims, amongst other things, to hold perpetrators accountable.

The Suzy Lamplugh Trust have raised concern that a lot of victims tend to drop the charges because they find it too emotionally challenging, meaning the actual number of stalking victims could be much higher than official data suggests. Stalking is increasingly being recognised as a form of domestic abuse within the criminal justice system, a Crown Prosecution Service analysis finding the majority of offences are committed by ex-partners. Although a record 2,288 charges were brought in 2019-20, more than double the figure five years previously, the percentage of reported cases charged fell from 23 per cent in the year ending March 2016 to just 11 per cent in the year ending March 2020. Speaking last summer, the senior policy and campaigns officer for the Suzy Lamplugh Trust said:

'What is really needed is in depth specialists and regular training for police officers. We need to make sure that when somebody reports stalking…the police officer responding to the incident understands what stalking is.'

Unfortunately, Plaid Cymru's predictable call for the devolution of powers at the end of their motion distracts from a highly important debate and gives the false impression that our Westminster colleagues are not also already switched on to these matters. Hence our amendment 1, which calls on the Senedd to welcome the Stalking Protection Act 2019, introduced by then Conservative MP Sarah Wollaston and Conservative peer Baroness Bertin, and the Lords vote in favour of an amendment to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill to make misogyny a hate crime in Wales and England, led by Conservative Baroness Newlove. The Minister for Social Justice's statement in her letter copied to Members last Friday that it is likely that amendments agreed in the Lords will be overturned and further amendments made, only reinforces the importance of this Parliament sending a united message of support for making misogyny a hate crime. Thank you.

I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing in this debate today, as stalking, as we've heard, has a significant and lasting effect on the lives of victims, survivors and their families. The impact on the victims' mental health is often profound. A survey carried out by the Suzy Lamplugh Trust in 2020 found that, of those who responded to the survey, 94 per cent said that stalking had indeed impacted their mental health. It is predominantly a gendered crime, and we've already heard today that one in five women are being targeted compared to one in 10 men. People living with disabilities and long-term health problems are also disproportionately affected.

In 2019, the Stalking Protection Act was passed. It applies to both England and Wales. A crucial part of the Act is the civil stalking protection order. This allows the police to apply to the magistrates' court, who can then impose restrictions and positive requirements on the perpetrator. Crucially, breaching the terms of the stalking protection order is a criminal offence. Any breach of the conditions gives the police the power to arrest the perpetrator. They can also be used to protect victims of stalking when a criminal case is being built. Alarmingly, a BBC report found that only two stalking prevention orders had been granted in Wales between 2020 and March 2021, despite 3,000 stalking offences being reported to the police during that period. 

The Suzy Lamplugh Trust 'Unmasking Stalking' report in 2021 found that only 9 per cent of victims whose experience of stalking started after the first lockdown had a stalking prevention order in place. Having legislation, of course, is one thing, but if it's not being used to protect victims as intended, then it has to raise serious concerns. I'm keen to understand what discussions Welsh Government have had with the relevant organisations, such as police and the wider criminal justice system, as to why the number of stalking prevention orders granted during this time is so low. I wonder if it's a matter of police, CPS and magistrate training and, if it is, how that's being addressed. I also welcome today the £400,000 investment in the 30 new facilities that will allow courts to act by video-link, because we've already heard that what will prevent stalking victims from going to court is the very thought of having to face the perpetrator in the same room. So, again, in finishing, I would like to say I'm really, really pleased to take part in this debate and really pleased that it was tabled. 

Stalking is a crime that shatters lives. It's a cumulative dread that builds in the mind, a mass of moments of infringements on a survivor's psyche and sanity, a campaign of quiet terror that pulls a person apart piece by piece. I've worked with a number of survivors of stalking, and the mental anguish that they're put through is debilitating. Stalkers blow families apart, destroy relationships, make you feel unable to walk down the street or even open your laptop without their presence making you feel diminished or under threat. I've worked with women whose stalkers installed spyware and listening devices in their homes, who suffered PTSD, women whose stalkers turned up at their workplace, who had their keys in order to copy them, women who received death threats, one woman who received a text from her stalker with a picture of a noose with the words, 'Not long now, my flower.' And, worst of all, women whose families were left to tell their stories for them because they had been murdered by their stalkers. 

I heard these testimonies, Dirprwy Lywydd, when I was part of a campaign in Westminster between 2010 and 2012 that resulted in new stalking laws being introduced. Working with the late, great Harry Fletcher, who is so missed, we set up an inquiry chaired by Elfyn Llwyd MP. We took evidence from practitioners, legal experts and, yes, survivors and families, about how the system was failing victims. And thanks in large part to the testimony of those brilliant women, we persuaded the UK Government to introduce new laws, announced on International Women's Day 2012, only a month after we published our report. The new clauses were subsequently passed within, I think, a record-breaking 11 days by both Houses of Parliament. Yet, Dirprwy Lywydd, it infuriates and disheartens me that, 10 years later, we need to have this debate—and we do—because police forces are not receiving the right training and prosecution rates are stubbornly low. The stalking laws, so long fought for, are not being used and women are still being failed by the justice system. Our motion calls for the Government and police and crime commissioners to ensure police forces understand the real nature of stalking and that mitigations available to them are used.

As we've heard, between January 2020 and March 2021, only two full stalking protection Orders were granted in Wales, despite 3,000 stalking offences being reported to the police—3,000. And I mention the real nature of stalking because, too often, it is played down or missed. The national stalking helpline found that around 50 per cent of survivors were unsatisfied with the police response to their case. In a quarter of cases, it was because the police didn't recognise the pattern of behaviour as stalking. 

With stalking, Dirprwy Lywydd, it is the pattern that creates the crime. Individual incidents taken alone will seem utterly inconsequential, but together they amass menace, and stalking is defined in law in a very particular way in terms of the impact the behaviour has on a victim—behaviours that cause serious alarm or distress. If police aren't given training in how to catalogue patterns of behaviour, to think of the cumulative stress put on the victim, and not only to see the one thing in front of them—the flowers that have arrived in the post for the fourth time that week, the messages sent on Twitter under new and elaborate guises, the stalker happening to be parked outside a person's home. It isn't the individual instance that creates alarm; it is the aggregate effect. And if the police officer dealing with your case isn't sympathetic to the nature of what stalking can do, you can feel trapped in this torture. 

Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, our motion calls for women's safety to be a cornerstone in the design of public spaces. We don't have just physical spaces in mind here, but online spaces too. Women or any victims of stalking should not be forced to retreat from public spaces out of fear. Until policing and justice are fully devolved, our powers over improving people's lives in this area will only be partial. We owe it to survivors like those amazing women that I've worked with to do everything we can to end the torment of stalking. 

Thank you very much to Plaid for proposing this debate. I thank Joyce for highlighting the fact that only two stalking orders were granted in the last available set of figures in one year, and I think it makes point (c) and point (e) of the motion particularly important, which I'd like to talk about in relation to one of my constituents, who has been persistently stalked over two or three months, and the police have simply failed to take appropriate action. So, she's had her—. The relationship ended, which she thought had been reasonably amicable, but then she's had persistent reporting to the police of her tyres being slashed, and again and again, pouring paint over the car, ripping off the wing mirrors and the windscreen wipers. This happened on five occasions, and all the police did was to tell her to move her car to somewhere else, and to buy a closed-circuit television camera. So, she had to then get together her hard-earned earnings to buy a CCTV camera, and she did then get the evidence on the CCTV camera of him slashing the car yet again. And the police just go round and say, 'Oh, there's not enough evidence here to take this to the Crown Prosecution Service because we won't get the prosecution we need.' 

Well, we simply have to change the culture on this, because we should know that it's very different from people who do stupid things in the heat of the moment because we're upset. This is persistent and obsessive behaviour that, if it's done to one person, will be done to another person if that person manages to escape their clutches. We all may have seen the programme about Dennis Nilsen. The police failure to act on the Dennis Nilsen murders meant that many more young people were killed than should have been, and, in the case of stalking, obviously, we're not talking about murder at this stage, but how do you know that somebody who's currently a stalker won't go on to do more extreme things because they're going to get more of a kick out of a more extreme action?

So, this is a really serious matter. It has to be taken to court in order to get the courts to force the individual to address their own adverse childhood experience, probably, but at least to understand that that is just not the way to behave. If somebody doesn't want to have a relationship with you any longer, that is the end of the story. If, by failing to do so, we are not putting a halt to this obsessive behaviour, that person is going to go on to do exactly the same thing to lots of other people—anybody else they get into a relationship with and who doesn't want to be in a relationship with them after they realise what a controlling individual that person is.

Obviously, I'm going to be taking this up with the police, but I think it's really important that we do force our police commissioners to take this matter seriously. Of the one in five people we think this happens to, we have two stalking orders. This will just not do, and I think we really do—. We can't just rely on the new curriculum to ensure that young people understand what respectful relationships look like. We absolutely have to ensure that law enforcement is preventing people who have become a danger to the community from taking things even further.

As we've just heard, stalking is a traumatic experience for those who experience it and survive it. Often, the psychological impact is huge and can lead to depression, anxiety and stress. It's believed that around half of stalking survivors have difficulty with PTSD, stress, anxiety and being overly cautious.

Ultimately, the impact of stalking is to significantly limit the freedom of another individual, leaving them with the feeling that they have to be careful and cautious all of the time. Often, individuals who are stalked have to leave their homes and give up employment, school or college. In addition to this, stalking often happens over a long period of time, so the individual lives in constant anxiety and fear. On average, an individual will be stalked for a period of between six months and two years.

It's no surprise, bearing that in mind, that 94 per cent of stalking victims say that it impacts their mental health. Eighty per cent of stalking survivors experience symptoms consistent with PTSD as a result of being stalked. The pandemic and the stress emerging from it, with reduced access to mental health support, have exacerbated the impact of stalking on the mental health of survivors. We must ensure, therefore, that comprehensive and specialist services are available to stalking survivors and that the appropriate training is also available for police and professionals working in this area.

Stalking, like sexual harassment, impacts women far more than men. One in five women will have experienced stalking, which is a sign of the patriarchal society that we live in, where power lies with one half of the population at the expense of the other. Stalking, sexual harassment and the use of violence against women emerge from an inequality of power, which has been in place structurally and historically.

I believe that women of my generation have kept too quiet on this issue and have been too quiet for too long, although most of us will have suffered as a result of this during our lifetimes. So, it is time for us, as women of all ages, to say 'Enough is enough—no to stalking, no to sexual harassment, no to domestic violence and abuse.' It's time we stood together to draw attention to all inappropriate actions, including all stalking activity, and say 'No more' and do so with a united voice. More than that, we must insist that the agencies, the police and the courts do take stalking seriously. I think that that is the clear message that we're hearing from our national Parliament today.

I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I start by thanking Plaid Cymru for tabling this important motion for debate today? It's very timely that you've brought this for debate in the run-up to National Sexual Abuse and Sexual Violence Awareness Week, an annual event that actually aims to bring people together to both condemn this behaviour and to push for change. I am also pleased to support the Welsh Conservatives' amendments today. I think it strengthens and provides a united message from this Senedd to draw attention to the horrific impact of stalking on victims' lives. But it also does give us an opportunity to highlight the essential work being carried out by the Welsh Government to tackle violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence. Can I say, to all of those who've contributed today, that all the contributions you made will be taken into account? They will help steer the way forward in the strengthening of the action that needs to be taken at all levels of this Government and all Governments who have powers and responsibilities.

Stalking is an abhorrent crime, and it's a prime example of the misuse of power and control that typifies violence against women and girls that's been identified. Stalking is designed to cause fear, alarm and distress to victims. It's persistent, it's intrusive—we've heard a real-life example this afternoon—and not only does it ruin lives, but it has a long-standing impact, as has been said, on mental health and post-traumatic stress disorder. Appallingly, as has been highlighted, the data shows it's increasing, as well.

So, I also want to draw this debate alongside the written statement I issued only last month after the tragic death of Ashling Murphy, which sadly followed on from statements I've made after the murders of Sabina Nessa and Sarah Everard. These women, and many more, are the victims of male violence. Their lives were cut short because they were not safe on our streets: not safe to walk home, not safe to exercise, not safe to simply be women going about their lives. You've heard me say this before, and I am unapologetic about repeating myself, but what I hope you've also heard are the voices of women who are standing up in response to these cruel, tragic, but sadly persistent crimes, and saying, 'This is enough.'

You will have heard the voices of those who attended the vigil for Ashling in Grange Gardens in Cardiff last month, for example. Following the vigil, Sara Robinson summed this up so perfectly in her column in the Western Mail, urging us all to,

'build a world where we don't need these vigils'.

She came, as a young woman who likes to go running, to take part in that vigil, and I think many women and men went in support, to make that point and to make that stand there that night. So, I think debates like this do provide that opportunity to add our voices to theirs, to all agree that it is wrong, it has to stop, and together we have to create that world where vigils are not necessary because of these abhorrent acts.

So, that's why we're strengthening and expanding our violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy to include that focus on violence and harassment against women in the public space as well as in the home, and to ensure that that refreshed strategy is developed alongside key partners—and this is reflected in the motion—including the police, police and crime commissioners, and of course the specialist sector who have been working for years and years, particularly those providing refuge support for domestic abuse and sexual assault referral centres, and of course they provide such incredible, invaluable support to victims and survivors of stalking as well as other forms of VAWDASV.

So, it is joint working—and that message has come through across this Chamber—with agencies such as the police and criminal justice partners, to make legislation work—what has been highlighted is the failure really, in terms of the lack of stalking orders—to hold it to account and see what else we need to do. But we do recognise that at the heart of this revised strategy, we've got to—

Will you take an intervention?

Indeed.

Sorry, Minister, just a short one. Just to say that you're completely right, obviously, about the joint working; we're only going to tackle this if we do all work together on this and that includes working with UK Government and the police, as you've just outlined, and particularly on social media and how easy it is to stalk someone using social media, be it by being pinned on a map on Snapchat or being in a photo that tags where you are, where your position is. It is so easy these days, and so we need to talk to those big companies and work out some sort of strategy that stops it being so easy to track where people are. Thank you.

Thank you. That's a very helpful additional contribution to the debate today, working obviously in terms of the police tackling domestic violence at every level, including social media online violence, which it often follows and is included in the stalking incidents that we've heard about, and certainly working with the Domestic Abuse Commissioner for England and Wales and our UK Government Ministers on these issues, and the police as well.

But I just want to say that people have mentioned training and education, high-quality appropriate teaching and learning. Relationships and sexuality education will of course play a very important role in this, and that's why the RSE mandatory requirement within the new curriculum, starting in September next year, is so important, because the change has to come with our children and young people to highlight the importance of those safe, equal and healthy relationships and that abusive behaviour is also always wrong.

The revised strategy has to be ambitious. It is going to be achievable. We've extended the consultation to 18 February, so points that have been expressed today will be very important. We've got to hear what the wider people of Wales think. We've got to create a society where women are treated as equals and not subjected to violence and abuse on such an awful scale.

I'd just like to finally say that we have a campaign this month. It's called 'Call Out Only'. It aims to help people identify behaviours associated with street harassment. It acknowledges experiences of women and girls and also recognises where that can cause fear, alarm and distress. But it does call on the public to call out and challenge assumptions about harassment, particularly that harassment  against women and girls, often wrongly, has been seen as being harmless and they've got to call it out with their peers, friends and colleagues. So, look out for this 'Call Out Only' campaign. That will be the message.

And as I've said, we do support the Lords amendment to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill to include misogyny as a hate crime and it's great that we can get that backing here today, isn't it, from the Senedd? So, supporting that amendment.

We are talking specifically about stalking today, but we have to make this clear, that this is part of a spectrum of behaviour that particularly affects women and girls and our response must be comprehensive if it's to be effective, and I want to be held to account on this. We must unite when violence is on our street, we must unite for change and we must unite to allow everyone to live fear free. Diolch yn fawr.

I call on Sioned Williams to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions to this afternoon's debate and to the Minister for her robust response, and I agree with her: fundamental to our motion this afternoon is the need to tackle violence against women and girls, which is an unacceptably common experience in our society. Stalking mainly impacts women and girls, with over 80 per cent of those contacting the National Stalking Helpline identifying as female, and the perpetrators being mainly male.

It is clear that stalking is a symptom of a broader social problem and is part of the violence, harassment and abuse that scars the lives of too many women and girls in Wales. We must therefore ensure that the problem is taken into full account in the next VAWDASV strategy.

Minister, I know that the desire and ambition is there, but more must be done; things must improve for the victims of stalking. It's also worth noting the cross-cutting nature of stalking: whilst there is almost always a sexual or sexist element to stalking, many vulnerable and minority groups in our society are more likely to be targets of stalking, for example, as a result of their race of their sexuality. People with illness or disability are also more likely to be stalked, and 2,000 cases of stalking were reported by young people under the age of 18 in 2020 in England and Wales. And as we heard from Heledd Fychan, as in the case of all crimes against women and girls, unfortunately, it's assumed that the number of unreported cases is far higher than these figures.

Although the majority of cases are perpetrated by somebody the victim knows, and that cases can happen within domestic situations, almost a third are carried out by strangers, and therefore trying to ensure that public spaces are safe, are planned or adapted to ensure the safety of women and girls is crucially important. And as we heard in the debate, the digital space also needs to be made safe.

Tackling the prevention of stalking is central to our battle in ensuring an equal Wales. How can we put up with a situation where women suffer in such a way as was described so powerfully by Delyth Jewell and Siân Gwenllian as a result of this crime of stalking? A report by the UN shows that 71 per cent of women in the UK have suffered sexual harassment, and this increases to 86 per cent in the 18 to 24 age group. We are failing our young women, Deputy Presiding Officer. And the Suzy Lamplugh Trust has found that 97 per cent of women have experienced harassment on public transport, but only 14 per cent reported that to the police, and of those, only 6 per cent were offered any support. Only 1 per cent of those prosecuted were found guilty.

Having a culture where people can publicly harass clearly leads stalkers to think that they have free rein to behave in this obsessional and often threatening way, without anyone noticing or without social or legal consequences. The problem in terms of a lack of support and a lack of action in terms of the justice and policing system is clear. Delyth Jewell, Mark Isherwood and Joyce Watson outlined the problems related to the current situation in terms of this, outlining how the response at the moment is ineffective and unacceptable, leaving too many people to experience this terrible crime. And I thank Jenny Rathbone for sharing her constituent's terrible experiences.

Justice and policing, of course, is reserved to Westminster, and although we welcome the amendment in the House of Lords so that the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill will make hate towards women a hate crime in England and Wales, the Conservative Government in Westminster has already suggested that they won't support that amendment, and the Bill is inadequate in terms of tackling the wider socioeconomic problems that contribute to violence against women relating to inequalities on the basis of race, religion, sexuality, class, age, never mind equal access to health services, mental health services, housing and work. 

Many contributors this afternoon have outlined steps that could be taken by the Welsh Government to ensure that support for victims is improved and that more is done to prevent stalking in the first instance, and that we need better training for the police and other support services in order to identify, to respond and to prevent this terrible crime that causes so much anguish and too often leads to violence. Mark Isherwood, sending a message is not enough in the face of the attitude of your party's Government in Westminster. There's no doubt that devolving the powers is needed for us to try and respond more effectively to this crime and those that it affects, and, ultimately, actually do away with the circumstances that lead to stalking entirely. Thank you.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. Therefore, I will defer voting on the motion until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

We have now reached voting time. In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, I will suspend the meeting before proceeding to voting time.

Plenary was suspended at 18:04.

The Senedd reconvened at 18:10, with the Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) in the Chair.