But I fear that, sometimes, decisions are made without a deep understanding of the communities that they affect. Let's look at that principle of centralisation. I totally understand the arguments for developing centres that are able to have a bigger throughput of patients with the most serious illnesses. But (a) when we do that for rural areas, say, we have to think innovatively so as not to strip away core functions that are important locally, because whatever promises were made in relation to this particular centralisation, that certain services would be kept local, that's certainly not what has happened. And (b) if it's about better services, why on earth was that element of centralisation, which could have been beneficial, not developed around Ysbyty Gwynedd, where the quality of treatment was so high? I asked a Betsi Cadwaladr medical director why on earth wasn't it decided to centralise around Ysbyty Gwynedd. He told me he didn't know.

There are lessons here for all of Wales, I believe, First Minister, and that is that the principle of centralising has become more important than the quality of care in too many instances. Will the First Minister commit to having an investigation that's open and transparent, and independent, into what happened with vascular services in the north, so that all of Wales can be sure that those lessons, where centralisation does go wrong, are genuinely learnt?