4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to support the decarbonisation of transport? OQ57685

Thank you, and it's nice to hear from you again. 'Llwybr Newydd', the Wales transport strategy, sets out how we will reduce carbon emissions by encouraging more active travel, greater use of public transport as well as supporting the uptake of low-emissions vehicles.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. Deputy Minister, if you're serious about combating climate change and tacking the frequent delays on our railways, you must ensure Wales has a modern rail service. However, your own Government's figures show that 69 per cent of Transport for Wales trains are over 30 years old, and 44 per cent are 35 years or older. This presents an opportunity to replace our ageing trains with hydrogen trains, which are currently being trialled in Germany. This zero-emission train emits low levels of noise, with exhausts being only steam and condensed water, enabling us to meet climate change targets. So, can I ask, Deputy Minister, what consideration have you given and what discussions have you had with regard to decarbonising transport in Wales by replacing our ageing trains with hydrogen trains to improve rail services and improve the environment? Thank you.

Thank you. I've seen the latest disingenuous social media campaign on this by the Welsh Conservatives about the record over 20 years. Let me just say—[Interruption.] Andrew R.T. Davies says he's telling the people what's right. Well, first of all, you need to explain what the devolution settlement is. I'm happy for my officials to arrange a briefing session for Members of the Conservative Party to explain what is devolved and what is not devolved and how the Barnett formula works. That might be an instructive exercise for them. [Interruption.] Llywydd, it's hard to hear—even through his mask, the Member is still quite loud. [Interruption.] What I don't like is glib social media campaigns that hide the truth, which is that the UK Government is underfunding the Welsh passengers. That's the truth, Andrew R.T. Davies. Over the last—[Interruption.] Llywydd, please, this is not a conversation. I've been asked a question, I'm trying to give an answer with a running commentary from the man in the mask. For the last 20 years—

All men are in masks. Let's stop the references to masks, please, and let's allow the Deputy Minister to answer the question that was asked of him.

Over the last 20 years, Llywydd, for 12 of which the Conservatives have been in power in the UK, where rail infrastructure is not devolved, Wales has received less than 2 per cent of the £102 billion that the UK Government has spent on rail enhancement. We have 20 per cent of the level crossings across England and Wales, we have 11 per cent of the stations, we have 11 per cent of the rail track, we have 5 per cent of the population, and yet we only get 2 per cent of the funding. Forty-one per cent of the rail track in England is electrified, 2 per cent of the rail track in Wales is electrified. What's made it worse is that the Department for Transport comparability factor used for Barnett formula calculations for Wales has dropped from 89 per cent to 36 per cent. This means there's less money for Wales, despite significant increases in rail spending for England. That is fundamentally wrong, something that the Conservatives on the Welsh affairs select committee have recognised, and in a cross-party effort have said the UK Government needs to make sure that HS2 spending is Barnettised properly across the UK, and Wales gets its 5 per cent share. I've heard nothing from the Conservative benches, despite me asking several times for a cross-party effort on that, and I would still welcome it, instead of making cheap shots and not directing blame where blame is. [Interruption.] Llywydd, it is an unacceptable intervention from the Conservative benches, and it's a shame I have to draw attention to it. Despite that, we are investing £800 million on a new fleet of trains that will serve 95 per cent of passenger journeys across Wales from 2024. The first of those are already being tested, and will begin serving passengers in north Wales this year.

Deputy Minister, as you know, a key element of the south Wales metro, funded by a Welsh Labour Government, will be the introduction of cleaner, greener, environmentally friendly electric tram-trains on the core Valley lines, including between Aberdare, in my own constituency, and the capital. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact that these trains will have on reducing our carbon emissions?

A modern metro system is an integral part of a joined-up public transport system. It's a part, it's only a part, and there needs to be other parts as well. We need to integrate the bus services, which are the workhorse of the public transport system and carry the majority of people, along with active travel for that final bit of the journey. We know that over half of all car journeys are under five miles. These are currently being driven, clearly, and they could be done by foot and by bike. A system that links all these up into a modern metro system has significant potential, along with behaviour change interventions, to achieve modal shift, which is part of our transport strategy and part of our net-zero plan. The vision of the metro is to provide a turn-up-and-go service. People will do the easiest thing to do. Currently, we have designed a system where the easiest thing to do is to drive, and we need to change that so the easiest thing to do is to use public transport and active travel. The investment we're seeing in the south Wales metro, which is the largest civil engineering project of its kind in Wales at the moment—over the next few years we'll begin to see the manifestation of that in a major way—will be a significant step forward alongside the other measures that we're working on.