7. What discussions has the Minister had within the Welsh Government and externally to ensure locally sourced food and drink are available in schools, care homes and hospitals? OQ57733

I've had discussions with Cabinet colleagues and continue to work with local authorities and health boards to ensure food and drink sourced from local suppliers is available in schools, hospitals and care homes.

Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. As we're reminded often by Jenny Rathbone, there are so many positives from rebuilding a local food economy: it creates jobs, it's great for the environment also, and there are so many excellent business opportunities here, as the local demand far exceeds the local supply at the moment. We've been reminded again, haven't we, recently about the importance of not being over-reliant on importing food to this country. Young people need to be given the opportunity to remain within their communities and to be supported by public sector organisations. Now, my friend Rhun ap Iorwerth gave a shout out to cyngor Ynys Môn, my friend Llyr Gruffydd mentioned cyngor Caerfyrddin and Cyngor Gwynedd. Well, Llywydd, I'm going to mention cyngor Ceredigion now, because there's a great example where the Plaid Cymru-led cyngor Ceredigion made sure that all their food parcels to vulnerable people during the COVID pandemic were the best of local produce. And I welcome the important commitment in the agreement between Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government that free school meals will use locally produced ingredients, benefiting farms and local businesses across Wales. I'm sure we can all agree there's more to be done, so could you please give us an update on the issue and how we can ensure that locally sourced food is available and encouraged across Wales in all sectors? Diolch yn fawr.

You took me back a couple of years then to some sleepless nights around the food boxes at the start of the COVID pandemic. It was a great piece of work, and I certainly do pay tribute to Ceredigion council. They were tenacious in making sure that they used local food, and I think it was a great example of what we can do to support our fantastic Welsh food and drink producers far more.

You will have heard the Minister for Finance and Local Government mention the work that she's doing from a procurement point of view in relation to increasing supply of Welsh food into our school meals, for instance, through the Welsh public sector food frameworks that Caerphilly council have led on, and last summer I attended a meeting to see what more we could do to get Welsh food and drink into our hospitals. I'm really pleased to see that that work continues to be taken forward.

But I go back to what I was saying to Jenny Rathbone, really. We just need to change, I think, the way we think about tendering for food, and it doesn't have to be the cheapest. Again, Rebecca Evans referred to the fact that we're struggling to get a poultry supplier for our public services food provision here in Wales. So, there's a significant piece of work to do. I know that, as part of the co-operation agreement, we're looking at how we do it for free school meals, but I think we need to do it across the wider public sector too.

Some months ago, Minister, I raised with you the Bill that went through the National Assembly of France about local procurement and in particular setting targets for supermarkets to source local produce. My colleague Peter Fox has his Bill going through the Senedd at the moment. You said you would go away and look at that piece of legislation that has now been passed in the National Assembly of France. It does seem to be a vehicle that can make a genuine difference. I've been here now nearly 15 or 16 years—I know it doesn't look like that—[Laughter.]—and I never hear anyone dissenting about supporting local produce, but the reality is there have been nips and tucks here and there but no overall momentum behind this, and I do think a legislative proposal such as the French put through and such as my colleague Peter Fox has brought forward would make a real difference in this particular area. 

I think I've been here for the same amount of time, so I'm saying nothing. [Laughter.]

You look better than me. [Laughter.]

We did look at that piece of legislation, and certainly in discussions I've had with Peter Fox—because, as you know, I didn't support Peter's Bill, however we are bringing forward the community food strategy. So, I think Peter has got some really good ideas that we want to incorporate in the community food strategy, and we did look, as you say, at that piece of legislation. And you're right, not many people do dissent from, 'We must do more, we must use more local produce et cetera', but I do think we need to change that mindset around what I said in earlier answers around it has to be the cheapest tender. We don't want to see cheap meat flood in; we want to see the quality meat that we have here in Wales, but people have to recognise that that does sometimes cost more. So, I think it is about changing that mindset, but, certainly, as we take forward the community food strategy, I actually don't think we need a change in legislation, I think we have the tools already to do that. But we are looking very closely at what Peter is suggesting, along with Plaid Cymru as part of the co-operation agreement, in relation to the community food strategy.