8. Debate: The General Principles of the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:35 pm on 15 March 2022.

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Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 4:35, 15 March 2022

Colleagues will know of my personal and this Government's commitment to working in social partnership. We all benefit from working together as Government, trade unions and employers to ensure better outcomes in education, in the workplace and as a society. As Members will know, the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership is bringing forward a Bill later this year, and I want to confirm that the social partnership duty, as set out in that draft Bill, will apply to the commission as it will be a body subject to the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. I agree with the intention behind the Children, Young People and Education Committee's recommendation on social partnership, and I am exploring this matter further whilst also considering the anticipated provisions of the forthcoming social partnership Bill. 

There are a range of recommendations in respect of research. I've already indicated my intention to bring forward amendments to increase the prominence of research on the face of the Bill, including through amendments to the strategic duties. In respect of the statement of priorities and the commission's strategic plan, I'm afraid I don't accept the recommendation to subject the development of the statement of priorities to a statutory consultation duty, and it's for this reason: the priorities we intend to be set out in the statement to be published under section 11 will be high level and strategic, and will not, in my opinion, lend themselves to consultation. I am, however, reflecting on the recommendation in respect of the ability of the Welsh Ministers to modify the commission's strategic plan, and will consider whether to bring forward an amendment. 

With regard to the recommendations on board membership and roles, I appreciate the case that is being made. However, it does not, in my view, give sufficient weight to the issue of avoiding potential conflicts of interest, separation of activities and maintaining the independence of trade unions, the National Union of Students and learner representative bodies. In establishing strong advisory board membership, we are going further than many current structures. Although, of course, we have listened to the references made to governance structures of individual providers, I do not believe that this should be the template for the board of a national regulatory and funding commission, as it has a fundamentally different remit. As colleagues will be aware, the important issues of institutional autonomy and academic freedom are debated, understandably, whenever tertiary education legislation is introduced. The Bill contains a number of provisions recognising institutions' well-established autonomy. However, I note the views of committee and stakeholders, and I'm exploring options for even greater provision in this area. 

Moving on to registration, and in response to the query raised by the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, registration is critical in respect of higher education providers as they now receive only a small proportion of their funding in the form of recurrent grants to which terms and conditions could be applied. The majority of their public funding is from student support. If the register were removed, then the commission would be unable to effectively regulate these providers because of this predominant reliance on student support rather than commission grants. The Bill would then fail to achieve a number of its key objectives. With regard to the recommendations of the committees in respect of increasing transparency around the funding decisions of the commission, I am already considering how the Bill can be further refined in this area. 

Turning to the CYPE committee's recommendation 29 in respect of sixth forms, I'd like to highlight that the Bill already adds further additional protections through the strategic duty placed on the commission to promote tertiary education through the medium of Welsh. It will apply to the commission in discharging its functions across the post-16 sector, including any considerations in respect of maintained school sixth form provision. Additionally, the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act 2013 and the statutory school organisation code also include relevant protections and safeguards to ensure that Welsh language provision and provision provided by faith schools is duly considered in any proposals brought forward for reorganisation. In addition, the current ministerial backstop powers of intervention remain in place. As such, I do not consider further amendments to the Bill to be necessary, and I consider that the existing provisions provide for the protections that are sought by the committee in this recommendation.

In relation to the recommendations in respect of the power to dissolve higher education corporations, I have noted the strength of feeling of stakeholders and will bring forward amendments to these provisions to address these concerns. I note the recommendations in respect of section 105 of the Bill, which makes provision in respect of consent for collaborating bodies. I am already exploring options for amendments to improve these provisions.The LJC committee has made a range of recommendations about the proposed Senedd procedures for the exercise of delegated powers in the Bill. While it has not been possible for me to accept all of the committee's recommendations in full, I will bring forward amendments in response to recommendations 12, 13 and 15.

Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, turning to the Finance Committee, the regulatory impact assessment will be updated in line with standard procedure after Stage 2 with the latest information, and in light of the committee's recommendations. I do not envisage any significant changes to the overall figures in the RIA, as the anticipated staff numbers of the commission, the major driver of overall cost, have not altered since November. I recognise the committee's desire to explore the updated regulatory impact assessment. So, I will share a copy with the committee as soon as possible after Stage 2, to give the committee an opportunity to consider the latest information and ask any follow-up questions before Stage 3. While I recognise the intention behind the committee's recommendation in respect of costs to other bodies, I'm afraid I cannot accept this recommendation. It has not been possible to quantify any potential additional costs to other bodies, as this will depend upon decisions taken by the commission once it is established. Any assumptions or estimates made by the Welsh Government at this time would pre-empt these decisions and would not provide for accurate estimations of any potential costs.

In conclusion, Dirprwy Lywydd, this Bill establishes the commission as the national steward for tertiary education and research, responsible for its funding, oversight and quality. The commission will take a system-wide view, supporting learners throughout their lives to have the knowledge and skills to succeed and securing providers that are strong, independent and diverse, and that make significant contributions to national well-being and prosperity. I urge Members to agree the general principles and the financial resolution of the Bill today.