Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:52 pm on 15 March 2022.
I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and grateful to the Minister as well for the introduction he gave this afternoon and for appearing in front of our committee last December. He has, in addition to his appearance in December, responded to a number of additional queries via correspondence and we're also grateful to him for that.
This afternoon, Deputy Presiding Officer, I'm contributing to this debate on behalf of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. The Minister has replied formally to the recommendations in our report yesterday afternoon. Deputy Presiding Officer, we are publishing that correspondence to help inform this afternoon's debate.
Our report on the Bill contains 22 recommendations. Members will be pleased to hear that I do not plan this afternoon to cover all 22 in this contribution, but I will instead highlight the themes that have emerged during our scrutiny. The Bill contains 56 powers for Welsh Ministers to make regulations, Orders, codes, lists and directions, and in addition to issue guidance.
A number of our recommendations relate to our belief that the scrutiny procedures attached to some of the delegated powers need to be more robust. At present, we do not believe that they provide Members of the Senedd with sufficient powers and opportunity for scrutiny. For example, in recommendation 12 we advocate for the need for regulations made under sections 39 and 41 of the Bill to be subject to the negative procedure rather than to no procedure at all. I'm sure that the Minister will address these recommendations in full when he provides a further response to our committee's report, but I very much welcome the tone of what the Minister said in his opening remarks.
Deputy Presiding Officer, five recommendations in our report asked that the Minister clarify certain matters. For example, recommendation 11 asked the Minister to clarify and provide further reasoning as to why the regulation-making powers in section 30 are not accompanied by a duty to consult before the powers are used. The response we received yesterday from the Minister indicates that he will be giving further consideration as to whether these powers would benefit from a statutory consultation duty. I welcome that commitment and I look forward to the Minister continuing to consider that and coming to a happy conclusion.
Two recommendations in our report, recommendations 9 and 10, relate to section 23 of the Bill. We asked the Minister to confirm why a legal provision for registration is necessary, particularly as it appears possible to regulate other tertiary education providers through the terms and conditions of funding. If a provision in law is needed, we recommend that the categories referred to by the Minister during the committees' Stage 1 consideration of the Bill are set out on the face of the Bill, with an accompanying provision that enables additions and/or modifications to be made by regulations subject to the affirmative procedure. Again, I am confident that the Minister will address these recommendations in full when we have a further response to our committee's report, but, again, I wish to welcome the tone of the Minister's opening remarks.
Deputy Presiding Officer, before closing, allow me to briefly comment on two recommendations in our report that relate to our committee's broader objective of helping to ensure this Senedd makes good law. Firstly, Members will know that one of the requirements that must be met for a Bill to be within the legislative competence of the Senedd is that all provisions must comply with the European Convention for the Protection of Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms. We were disappointed as a committee with the uninformative response that the Minister provided when we asked how the rights of entry and inspection provided for in sections 62 and 72 of the Bill are compliant with the Human Rights Act 1998.
Our recommendation 2 asked the Minister to provide the Senedd with full details about the human rights impact assessments carried out in relation to the Bill, including how sections 62 and 72 of the Bill comply with the 1998 legislation. Minister, I acknowledge that you have addressed this recommendation in the letter we received yesterday afternoon, and you have confirmed that human rights implications have been fully considered and that you are content that the Bill, and specifically these two sections, are both compatible with convention rights. However, it is the view of the committee that this is not the same as providing the Senedd with full details of the assessments, breakdowns and publication of the assessments that are being undertaken. The Minister will know that our committee pays close attention to the Welsh Government's obligations with regard to human rights and equality impact assessments.
Secondly, there are several delegated powers in the Bill that the Minister has included for reasons of flexibility and futureproofing. As a matter of good law, we do not consider it appropriate for a government to take Executive powers in a Bill when that government has no intention of using those powers. We fully appreciate that it is, for Government, something that provides them with flexibility for the future. However, it is right and proper that in the correct democratic supervision of the exercise of Executive powers, this place only provides those powers to Ministers that are actually necessary to deliver on the legislation as written.
Recommendation 4 in our report asked the Minister to provide further detail and clarity regarding the powers in eight sections of the Bill and how they are intended to be used by the current Welsh Government. I welcome the information that the Minister has provided to us in an annex to the letter we received yesterday, and we will continue to write to Members providing further analysis, reflections and observations on these matters.
Minister, once our committee has formally considered your full response to our report, we may well come back to you on certain matters. But at present, Deputy Presiding Officer, that concludes the view of the committee.