Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:06 pm on 15 March 2022.
Obviously, we too would like to join the Minister and the Chair of CYPE in thanking everyone who's contributed and played their part in getting the Bill to this point today. Welsh education is at a crucial juncture, and the tertiary education and research Bill, which we are generally in support of the principles, along with the new curriculum and relationships and sexuality education, are seismic changes and will now provide the groundwork for the next generation of Welsh education. So, it is imperative that we get this right first time round. This is a long, complex process, and I'd like to thank the Chair of CYPE, Jayne Bryant, for the way that she's conducted proceedings in the committee so far, and also the other Chairs who have contributed today, and the committees. And also the Minister for answering our questions so honestly. So, thank you. All this, I'm pleased to say has been—. I'm pleased to see that it has been brought to the Chamber today to ensure that the Bill is on the right path. And I'd like to thank you already, Minister, for the amendments that you've already outlined that you're committed to change. Even though I've been concerned about the pace, obviously, that this has been brought about, I think the priority now needs to be, as has been said, on making it good legislation. Therefore, I'd also like to extend my thanks to all those who have given evidence, and, in large part, as the Chair of CYPE said earlier, it has been generally in support of the Bill, although with some welcome constructive criticism along the way.
As you know, this is a huge change. For the first time in Welsh legislation, the Bill will ensure the following are all in one place: Wales's higher and further education, school sixth forms maintained by local authorities, apprenticeships, adult community learning, as well as the responsibility for research and innovation. The Bill will create and give a new commission powers to shape tertiary education and research in Wales, and really help to build a stronger future economy and provide greater cohesion across the sector, which we all, I'm sure, want to see, and between compulsory and post-compulsory education within schools, which is an added factor that we welcome.
The commission is likely to be a large and complex organisation, with a remit that covers a wide-ranging sector, so, Minister, it appears crucial to me that we ensure the commission's governance reflects the breadth of education provision and research and the diversity of Wales, which you kindly recognised earlier. For example, increasing the worker and learner representation on the commission, as Jayne Bryant outlined earlier—hopefully, you can assure us today that that is something that you are looking to do.
And that's not all, Minister. I believe that you must define what the Bill means by 'parity of esteem', with specific—that's my word I can't do—recommendations for the Bill to include a balanced funding duty, to ensure certain parts of post-16 sectors are not lost. Alongside this, we need to make sure that this Bill protects learner and student welfare, putting the voice of learners and students at the heart of the commission's decision making, as Jayne Bryant outlined, again, earlier, and include a strategic duty to provide collaboration and competitiveness in research and innovation. So, Minister, how do you intend to make sure the voices of learners and students are placed at the heart of the commission in this Bill?
During the Committee Stage of the Bill, it became apparent to me and many others that you need to put in place safeguards around the commission's independence from Government, for example, through amendments to ensure the Minister cannot change the commission's strategic plan without the commission's agreement. Minister, to be truly successful, this needs to be an arm's-length body. The Bill still leaves a significant amount of control to Welsh Ministers—I do thank you for acknowledging that earlier, Minister—for example, the option of approving the commission's strategic plan with modifications. Welsh Ministers are obliged to consult the commission before they modify its plan, but there is no compulsion for both sides to agree. In order for the commission to be credible, it needs to be independent to be trusted. Thanks for recognising these concerns earlier, but I still don't think that they go far enough.
You have touched on this today, but to help stakeholders better understand the purpose of powers retained by Welsh Government, it would be beneficial, Minister, in either future scrutiny or via Plenary if you could set out the distinction between the role of Welsh Ministers and that of the commission and, importantly, how any difference of opinion may be resolved. So, Minister, how are you going to guarantee that independence and allay those fears, please?
I have also concerns about the implementation of the Bill. Evidence from the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, or HEFCW as we know it, highlights a clear risk to the implementation of the Bill's provision without clear plans in place for a vast range of operational matters required to ensure the commission's success. Minister, there isn't really much detail on how the Bill will work with the regulations. We need information on these regulations before the Stage 2 proceedings begin. Will this information be provided and will it be before Stage 2?
Minister, as you know, a great deal of the success of this legislation will depend on its implementation. Currently, the commission is due to be established in 2023. Could the Minister provide an update on what he expects to be in place at that point and what steps have been taken to prepare for implementation? I look forward to playing my part in bringing this Bill and making sure it is the best it can be for our learners in Wales. We thank you and we will be supporting this motion today.