6. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding encouraging businesses to prioritise health and well-being in the workplace? OQ57836

Welcome back. The health and well-being of workers is a priority for this Government. Last month, the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being and I announced £1.4 million of funding over the next three years for the Time to Change Wales programme to continue. We also work together on the Healthy Working Wales programme as well.

Thank you for that answer. The COVID pandemic has led to a dramatic change in the way we work. Whilst many will now be returning to the office, some workers will still be working from home and getting used to new, more flexible work practices. Whilst the flexibility is to be welcomed, this has led to a blurring of the lines between the work and the home environment in some cases. Countries like Portugal and Belgium are introducing right-to-disconnect legislation, which allows employees to disconnect from their work outside of office hours. Has there been any discussions within the Welsh Government or with the UK Government about introducing similar rules for Wales?

No, we're not at that point. We are having a conversation about what is a healthy balance in the way that the world of work has changed during the pandemic, and how much that change is going to be permanent. And actually, some of the challenges about the surveillance of people when they're working remotely—it's a matter that, of course, Sarah Murphy, the Member for Bridgend has consistently raised. There's a balance between those people who have seen a well-being improvement from being able to have some of their working life done remotely and those who have found it a struggle in not being as connected to the workplace as well. So, it isn't as simple as saying, 'Going back to the office is good for everybody's mental health', and it's not as simple as saying, 'People not working in an office is good for them as well.' So, there's the challenge in the balance. And interestingly, at yesterday's CIPD conference, this was part of the conversation being had.

In the visitor economy forum meeting that I had today, I made the offer that what I would like from the Government's point of view is a clear understanding, as the changing pattern emerges, between businesses and business organisations and trade unions, on what a better pattern of a working life is likely to mean, to make sure we balance some of these competing objectives in how you get on in your industry—actually, part of the practical business of learning on the job, as I did when I was a trainee solicitor; doing that was much easier when you were around other people—and at the same time, balancing other parts of your life and not necessarily having to be in a singular workplace five days a week for as many hours as possible. So, that's part of the challenge that we have, and I'm optimistic that we will get to a sensible place, because of the successful social partnership approach that we have. And that may mean that there is a case to change the reserved matters of employment law, and it may also mean we can do some of that, simply, with the successful partnership that we've already established here in Wales.

I'm a proud ambassador of the 'Where's Your Head At?' mental health campaign, and the campaign has culminated in a Bill going through the UK Parliament to ensure that, within first aid training, mental health first aid training is incorporated, and to recognise that the physical and mental side of first aid training are equal. I'm just wondering what you are doing in the strategies that you've announced to ensure that we have mental health first aiders within all businesses across Wales, and don't you agree with me that it's important that we have champions within the workplace looking after the needs of people with mental ill health?

Well, actually, the broader point about mental health is that it's something for all of us, in having some balance in what we do and to be able to be successful in work and outside work as well. It's not just a question of those people who are struggling with their mental health; maintaining good mental health is a matter for all of us. And actually, rather than having a specific point about wanting to try to mandate mental health first aiding that, actually, my own constituency office, for example, has undertaken and we've found it beneficial, but it's then also about what we do in our wider encouragement and leadership. And actually, in the Healthy Working Wales programme, that's part of what happens—looking at the mental health of a workforce, not just physical health. It's also part of our economic contract in one of the new pillars, in the promotion of people's physical and mental well-being as well. So, it's very definitely part of what we are looking for businesses to do and part of what we expect to see moving forward as a regular part of the way that every business and public service operates.