Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:45 pm on 29 March 2022.
Can I thank all Members and Chairs of the committees for their comments, and can I just echo that I do not disagree with the concerns that have been raised in terms of the issue of scrutiny? I think it is one of the unfortunate parts of the way legislation has been coming from Westminster and the speed at which we have to deal with issues, amendments and changes, and to have to almost tortuously negotiate through Sewel to get to a final conclusion. You'll notice, on this legislation, effectively, were it not for two items there, there wouldn't be a need for a legislative consent motion at all on this. We brought the consent motion specifically to reiterate the competence issues that we have—not the disagreements on the policy aspect, but the fact that we believe there are competence matters, and we will incorporate those within future legislation.
Can I also say that, of course, one of the problems, as you'll have noticed from the various dates that have been mentioned, is that the negotiations have been ongoing. The timescale was impacted by a reshuffle and then certain personal circumstances et cetera that delayed the inter-ministerial meetings. And, in fact, it went right up to the wire in terms of those last two items in terms of negotiations and changes. But I do recognise that, and there's a fundamental issue there that I think is more an inter-governmental one in terms of the proper legislative process that is there.
In terms of the points that were made by Rhys, we're not consenting to the Bill. Our requirement under our Standing Orders is to deal with those points that relate to our devolved competence, and the only bits we are agreeing to are, in fact, those particular items that have been identified there. And as I've already said, the majority of the proposed Bill has been actually carved out—Wales has been carved out of that. Can I agree with his analysis on that? Can I also just confirm to Alun that, yes, we do need to—? By carving out the arrangements in respect of the Electoral Commission with regard to the Welsh aspect, I think that has been really significant. And it, of course, does concern me about what remains within the UK Bill, but that is not within our competence. And of course the issue of electoral reform is one that I've already commented on in my statement.
And can I just reiterate the point that was particularly made by Alun—and it would be churlish of me, wouldn't it, to mention that, if you'd had your way on the 2017 Act, we would not now be in a position to actually have carved out this legislation because it would have applied automatically? And I think that there was prescience in the Government's position back at that time, that we recognised the importance of having that constitutional control over our electoral system. And I think some credit should be given to the Welsh Government for that particular decision at that particular time. Diolch, Llywydd.