The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Darren Millar and amendment 3 in the name of Lesley Griffiths.

Item 7 today is the Plaid Cymru debate on high-risk tips, and I call on Delyth Jewell to move the motion.

Motion NDM7972 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that more than 300 tips are known to be classed as high risk, and the increased rainfall associated with climate change could further destabilise tips across the valleys.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that high-risk tips are made safe by:

a) asking local authorities to release information about where high-risk tips are located;

b) insisting that the UK Government provides funding to repurpose, reclaim and remediate tips;

c) installing early-warning systems wherever possible;

d) reinstating the land reclamation grant to help deal with risks on tips.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to publish a national plan of action to help regenerate the areas surrounding the tips.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. What was the cost of coal to the Valleys? What price was demanded of our people to pay for the wealth others had taken? Do we measure that cost in bodies buried? Should it be calculated in lost livelihoods, lost limbs, in lungs thick with disease and dust? Or do we measure it in the muck and dirt taken from the ground and left to pock and scar our skyline?

Across Wales, there are more than 2,000 disused coal tips and tips—an ugly legacy, a potent symbol of what was taken from us. We've become used to them blocking our view. You visit almost any Valleys town and you'll find a tip looming above it, like a spectre in a nightmare. But since the Tylorstown landslide in 2020, that near miss that might have been so catastrophic—since that day, we've awakened again to the risk these tips pose. No longer just an eyesore, but next-door nightmares, muted time bombs that might go off at any moment.

More than 300 tips in Wales are classed as being high risk. We don't know where all of them are, which is why our motion calls for local authorities to be asked to release information about the location of the tips, to promote trust and accountability. We agree with the Law Commission that this information should be made public. We call for early warning systems to be developed, funded and rolled out so that communities can be warned about potential tip failures, just like with other natural disasters like earthquakes. Remote monitors that are used to pick up volcanic activity and tsunamis would sense landslips and raise the alarm, and people living in the vicinity could receive alerts on their mobile phones. These systems would be a godsend, and I'd ask the Minister in his response to provide an update on any roll-out of these systems and how they would be funded.

Our motion talks about the reclamation of the sites where the tips are located, and about the need for a national regeneration plan for these areas so long starved of investment or care. Because deindustrialisation in Wales, in the UK, didn't follow the pattern seen elsewhere in Europe. In France and Germany, redundancies were planned and miners offered training opportunities in sectors like civil engineering. But in the UK, as one former senior executive of the European Coal and Steel Community has put it, 'They look no further than to pension off the miner'. The National Coal Board and Thatcher's Government used redundancy to force agreement on mine closures, and miners were betrayed. No thought was given to the toll unemployment would take on entire communities. And when the mines closed, something of the spirit of these towns went with them, and so one of the most important thriving social and political forces in the history of Wales. The might of the miners all but vanished overnight. Because miners were so much more than what they did underground. There was a camaraderie, of course, a bond that bound men together. But above ground, those forces enriched the towns in the miners halls, eisteddfodau, the libraries, the educational drive and town-hall meeting culture, all led by miners and their families. They may have worked below ground, but their sights were set on the sky.

In one of his poems, Harri Webb reminisces about the colliers coming out of the cwbs at Caeharris station. Men, they said, with 90 per cent dust, who could hit top C as if it never existed. The sacrifices those men made, Dirprwy Lywydd, the horrors they endured, and still they sang. 

Until the Aberfan disaster in the 1960s, no legislation was in place to provide for the management of coal tips. It took that disaster and the deaths of 28 adults and 116 children for Westminster to consider the death traps they'd laid above our heads. But the Mines and Quarries Act is no longer fit for this purpose. It was enacted when mines were still operational, and the standards that were required in the 1980s and 1990s are no longer suitable in an era of climate change. There is no duty to ensure the safety of coal tips, and councils have no power to intervene until there are concerns that a tip is unstable. We shouldn't be waiting for another near-disaster to happen before preventative measures are taken.

And who should foot the bill? Westminster conveniently argues that this is a devolved matter. They don't much like devolution up there except for when it gets them out of paying their dues. Dirprwy Lywydd, you cannot devolve the past; you cannot use time travel to avoid awkward truths. These tips are a legacy of an industrial past that fuelled the Royal Navy's fleet, that powered railways, made British industrialists rich and that kept the miners and their communities in poverty. Coal created unimaginable wealth. The first million-pound deal in the history of the world was struck in the Coal Exchange in Cardiff off the back of Valleys coal. But none of it was spent in Bargoed or in Brythdir. Our valleys had coal deposits, but what deposits were laid for our future? They brokered a deal with Mammon, mortgaged the miners' health and their safety to get the quick and easy profits from the pits, but the repayment on that mortgage wasn't one paid by pit owners or shareholders. It is beyond the realms of reason, of morality, of any question of truth or decency to argue that an institution that did not exist when the men laboured and died should pay to clean up the mess that those industrialists left behind—the dust that blots out the sky in the same way it choked their lungs.

We are talking about significant sums of money, of course. The Coal Authority has estimated that the cost of making tips safe will be between £500 million and £600 million over the next decade. But is it really seemly to squabble about that payment? Because these valleys have too long been short changed and robbed of decency. In 1913—and I'll close with this, Dirprwy Lywydd—439 miners and one rescuer lost their lives in the Senghenydd colliery disaster, the worst mining disaster in British history. There was an inquiry, punishments were imposed, the manager paid a fine of £24, the colliery company paid £10. It was calculated that approximately one shilling had to be paid for every man and boy who died. In today's money, that would amount to £13. I've heard it said that widows weren't even paid the full day's wages for the day that the miners died, because they had died before their shift had ended. This is the legacy we are talking about—the toll taken by coal on our communities. Westminster has a chance here to do one small thing to make good on their debt, outstanding as it is, the debt they owe to those miners and their towns—a chance to make a payment, an acknowledgement, so that, in the company of those memories, they should no longer be ashamed. In all decency, dear God, they should take it.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

I have selected the three amendments to the motion. I call on the Deputy Minister for Climate Change to formally move amendment 3.

Amendment 3—Lesley Griffiths

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to engage local communities to inform the approach to future tip management and tip reclamation taking full advantage of opportunities for job creation, training and upskilling and securing wider benefits.

Amendment 3 moved.

Formally.

Thank you. Therefore, I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move amendments 1 and 2 tabled in the name of Darren Millar—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Add as new point after point 1 and renumber accordingly:

Recognises that coal-tip safety is a devolved competence.

Amendment 2—Darren Millar

Delete point 2 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) publish information on the exact locations of high-risk tips;

b) install early-warning systems for high-risk tips, where possible;

c) create a new coal tip supervisory authority to establish a new safety regime, conduct risk assessments and tip management plans;

d) formalise agreements between owners, land users and the coal tip supervisory authority to act in an emergency.

Amendments 1 and 2 moved.

Thank you to Plaid. Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you, Plaid Cymru, for tabling this debate today. At heart, there is only one point that we disagree on, and that's your insistence that it is the UK Government that provides all the funding to repurpose, reclaim and remediate these coal tips.

I'm sure my colleagues on those benches there have actually read the recently published report on regulating coal tip safety in Wales, and it does clearly state that coal tip safety falls under devolved competence, and that's a competence that you've had here for 22 years. So, isn't it ironic that whilst, in this debate, Plaid Cymru are calling on the UK Government to pay for a devolved responsibility, in others, Rhys ab Owen bemoans the fact that the UK Government legislates on other devolved matters. Rhun—my colleague Rhun from north Wales—ap Iorwerth, is seeking the full devolution of the management of the Crown Estate and its assets in Wales, and the leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price, is pursuing an economically unfeasible independent Wales.

I know that Plaid Cymru really want Welsh sovereignty to rest with unelected commissioners in Brussels, but the truth of the matter is that it is the Welsh Government who are responsible for coal tip safety. And let's be honest, there is now a co-operation agreement in place, so I'm sure that you can work together to try and make some sense out of this issue. The Welsh Government has basically acknowledged their duty to find funding by making an additional allocation of £4.5 million of revenue over three years, and total capital funding of £44 million to support essential coal tip maintenance. And I do agree with Delyth Jewell earlier, the big issue really is about finding out—. Local authorities, I do believe, need the resources and we all need to know exactly where these high-risk tips are. Rather than wasting further Senedd time talking about lobbying the UK Government simply just to pay, why don't we work together cross party to work out where the about £0.5 billion needed over the next 10 years is going to come from. I would suspect that, surely, working with the UK Government is a way forward, but, again, there is work that you need to do, as a Welsh Government, in terms of working with local authorities to identify exactly where that risk is.

Another irony in this debate is that, whilst I do agree with the Welsh Government amendment, and I do want to see you engage with local communities, it is unacceptable that you have kept those people in your own communities in the dark as to the location of these high-risk tips. We also need to see the installation of early warning systems where possible. Despite there being 327 high-risk tips, only 70 of these have been part of the programme of technology trials, sensor equipment and earth observation techniques. We have been informed previously that the Welsh Government are looking at additional remote sensing and real-time telemetric monitoring systems. So, Minister, if you can just advise, what progress has been made today? I would be grateful if you could state how many of the 2,456 tips have a warning system in place. 

Finally, I would like to move on to the report published by the Law Commission last week. We covered some of this yesterday, but I would like to reiterate the importance of establishing a single supervisory body with the responsibility for the safety of coal tips, and over 90 per cent of respondents agreed with this proposal. However, I'm concerned, because, yesterday, I asked this question and you didn't respond, Deputy Minister. So, will you say whether you agree for this to be a new independent and separate body? It would make no sense to make it a division of NRW, especially given that it already—NRW that is—needs around 270 additional staff to carry out the responsibilities it already holds. I hope it will be a truly separate body, because if we act on the recommendations it will be under strict important duties, such as to arrange the compilation of a risk assessment and tip management plan for any tip included on the register, and allocating a risk classification to each tip, based on the inspection reports and risk assessments. 

Finally, when it comes to the lower risk tips, there is an absence of power under the 1969 Act to ensure proactive regular maintenance work. Around 80 per cent of respondents supported the proposals for tip maintenance agreements, providing for the carrying out by the owner of operations specified in the tip management plan. Such agreements could act to motivate and facilitate maintenance, so I hope that Welsh Government and, indeed, Members here will be pursuing this idea.

I'm out of time to discuss anymore of the report recommendations, but I do look forward to reading the Deputy Minister's detailed response to this commission in due course. And I do hope that we can all work together, stop the bickering, and that we act on the report urgently and we all work together and co-operate for the benefit of our communities across Wales. They deserve no less than that. Diolch.

Our communities deserve justice, and this is about accountability and putting right a historic injustice. And I think the question to Janet Finch-Saunders's comments is: who got rich from coal? And that's the crux of the matter and why we are pressing on the UK Government to put right this historic injustice. The arguments you mentioned in terms of my colleagues putting forward about the things we'd like to see devolved are about the future of Wales—

Will you take an intervention?

Of course I will.

Would you acknowledge, though, that we had Labour Governments at the times that mines were operable?

Certainly. I think any Government should be able to be accountable, and it has been in the UK Government. But, at this time, it is your Conservative Government, and they have the opportunity to put this right.

As expressed so eloquently by Delyth Jewell, so much of our modern history as a nation has been driven by the industrial revolution, when coal become such a crucial fuel. Despite this, the history of mining for coal goes back centuries before then, with the Romans mining for coal in Britain. Indeed, there is evidence of mining in Blaenavon dating back to the fourteenth century, and, in Mostyn, as far back as 1261. But the opening of the first coal mine in Wales in the Rhondda Valley in 1790 was the pivotal moment, presaging the transformation of the landscape and economy of the coal mining regions, as people went in their thousands to work and live there. But, as coal from Wales travelled to all four corners of the world, and as some, including the UK Government, profited handsomely from it, our communities and people suffered as a result of a dirty and dangerous industry. And now, of course, we continue to suffer the after effects, not just economic and social, but in terms of the damage caused by the industry to our environment, which led to the increase in carbon in our atmosphere.

As we saw in February 2020, with the devastating floods, post-industrial areas are now at greatest risk of the effects of the climate crisis, with the risk of flooding and landslides, such as the one we saw in Tylorstown, which caused a great deal of anxiety. Indeed, studies have suggested that there will be an increase of 6 per cent in rainfall in south Wales every winter by 2050, something that is already leading to instability in rivers, on land and, importantly, in coal tips. This isn’t just a matter of safety, but a matter of historical justice and climate justice. The UK Government profited from the benefits offered by the coal industry, ripping wealth from these communities that were at the industry’s heart, only for them to be cast aside afterwards.

People from the Rhondda and other coalfield areas did not reap the benefits and yet continue to be impacted negatively today. Coal tips are just one example of a bitter legacy of the coal industry and how our communities cannot escape from this whilst they continue to live in their shadows. It's incomprehensible to me, and many others, I’m sure, that this is an issue that remains today, especially following the horror of what happened in Aberfan. How money was not found before now to ensure the safety of our people and provide peace of mind to them is beyond belief.

Reclaiming and managing the tips also provides opportunities, with the Law Commission’s recently published report touching upon the role education can play in contributing to solutions to the issue of disused tips. It's noted that there have been problems with a loss of specialism in the field, and that, with many experienced inspectors now retired or nearing retirement, the shortage of experienced professionals was likely to worsen. There is therefore an opportunity to capture that knowledge and experience of these inspectors and to establish a programme to mentor new inspectors.

It's also worth thinking about the value of these sites in terms of heritage, and, as part of the commission’s consultation, Cadw and the Association of Local Government Archaeological Officers emphasised that some tips have value for their heritage, and that any restoration work should bear this in mind. The coal tips in the Blaenavon industrial landscape, for example, are designated by the UNESCO World Heritage Committee as a world heritage site. A number of historic coal tips have been registered as historic environment sites, and this is something that is considered in the planning process.

But, after decades of silence on some of these coal tips, the shock and horror felt by many following what happened in Tylorstown as a result of storm Dennis has at last prompted further discussion and action. It was a stark reminder of the dangers that remain as a result of our industrial history, and how these communities have been abandoned by the UK Government following the decline of the industry. Allowing this risk to continue is unacceptable.

Just because something hasn’t been done doesn’t mean that this should be allowed to continue, and I hope today that we can come together cross-party to send a clear message to the UK Government that funding must be provided to put right what they should have done long before now, and a clear message to our communities that we will do everything in our power to put this right.

There was one statement that was made yesterday by the Minister in his oral statement to the Chamber. He said:

'The Under-Secretary of State for Wales, David T.C. Davies, told the House of Commons Welsh Affairs Committee that

''if the Welsh Labour Government think that those coal tips are unsafe, they must act now.... They have the money to do it."'

Simple as that, and, of course, the Deputy Minister said,

'It's not us who say it's unsafe'— the Welsh Government—

'it's the Coal Authority...and we do not have the funding to do it.'

It is really that simple. So, I think it's easy for Janet Finch-Saunders to say, 'Let's put the politics aside,' but if in Westminster they are refusing to acknowledge even that there is an issue that they are responsible for, then that is not going to solve the problem. It really is that simple.

Now, in my submission—. Before I say my submission, I should also say that Senedd Members making a submission to the Law Commission's report were Huw Irranca-Davies, Heledd Fychan, Vikki Howells, Joel James and Sioned Williams. So, well done to those Members for making those submissions, because they are important so that the voices of your communities and my community are heard. So, that was vital. Caerphilly council also made a submission.

In mine, I said,

'There need to be enhanced powers for the appropriate public authorities (devolved or otherwise) to regulate privately-owned coal tips in Wales'.

So, the regulation of privately owned tips is vital, I think, in the White Paper.

'The Welsh Government requires additional funding (most likely from the UK Government)'— though not in whole—

'to address the cost of remediating publicly-owned coal tips in Wales.'

So, those are the key points that I have made in my submission. I'd also say that Caerphilly council made four key points, three of which I agree with, and one of which I don't. So, Caerphilly council said that CCBC supports the creation of an overarching supervisory authority, echoing what I said, if it works flexibly—and this is important, Deputy Minister—allowing local authorities to use existing expertise and offering additional resources where required. They also argued that the coal tip authority maintenance agreement should be standardised across Wales.

Now, Caerphilly council has had that expertise. I've met with Caerphilly council senior officers, the director of the environment, last year, and I've spoken to the chief executive and the leader. We have a tips register, which I've seen, and there are category D tips. It's important to remember that if a tip is category D, it doesn't necessarily coincide with it being of immediate risk. The assurance I've had from the Caerphilly council director of the environment is that there are no tips in Caerphilly, certainly in my constituency, but in the borough as a whole, that are of immediate risk. We are aware of one that is category D in particular, and it is being monitored on a monthly basis, and if there are heavy rains, then it is monitored on more than a monthly basis, but it isn't of immediate risk.

Now, one thing I'd say to all political candidates in the local government elections is that you will not be thanked by residents for standing on tips and pointing at them as if they're in some kind of imminent danger. It is not a wise thing to do to make this a party political issue in the local government elections. The work is being done. The Law Commission report, to which every party in this Chamber has submitted, is taking that forward and is taking the correct action. Frightening people, by standing on specific tips, I think, is irresponsible.

Now, what Caerphilly council says regarding the register and having a public register, they said that the most prominent reason given against making the contents of the register public was the risk of blight on properties adjacent or near to high-risk tips, with an impact on land values and property prices and on the cost of insurance. There could also be an impact on properties built on remediated sites. That was emphasised by a number of councils, including Caerphilly.

I've spoken to Caerphilly today, and I think there is a balance between frightening people and also providing public information, and that is where I've got a point of difference. I think there should be a public register, it should be publicly available, but it should also contain those things that demonstrate the difference between immediate risk and the kinds of risks that are there.

So, Caerphilly council also said that the risk classification system should allow sub-categories of risk identifiable by suffix, e.g. instability, flooding, pollution and combustion, and that is in the Law Commission report as well. I think that needs to be recognised in the White Paper. I think that would then go some way to assuage the problem of publishing the at-risk register, and I think Caerphilly council would concede on that. Indeed, they said to me there was nothing in the recommendations from the Law Commission's report that concerned them unduly. In fact, they said the key issue, of course, comes back to funding.

So, we need to take a responsible approach. I don't want to get into a party-political fight on it, but Westminster do need to stump up the money, and I would like the Welsh Government and the White Paper to contain some of the issues that I've raised today.

The manner in which Wales was exploited for its coal, draining our land of its mineral wealth and the vast profits that flowed from this resource came at a huge cost to local life and limb. This exploitation of the human cost of coal remains a scar on this so-called union. Now, we are being told by Westminster that we must bear the costs of making our communities safe. We're told that we must now find the funds to avert the disastrous consequences that can result from coal spoil landslide, disastrous consequences that we are sadly familiar with in Wales. 

The behaviour of the Westminster Government on this is shameful, and it will not be forgotten. In my region, there are 145 high-risk coal tips. In every community that lies in the shadow of such a tip, there will be much unease until these tips are made safe. This will be a particular concern when there is heavy rain—something we can expect more of in the future due to the climate crisis. The remedial work cannot happen soon enough.

There is a question to consider around how we develop coal tips once they have been made safe. Many coal spoils have become important places for wildlife. Indeed, new species have been discovered at such sites in recent years. They have provided a much needed refuge for species rapidly declining in our modern impoverished landscapes. By linking up with traditional habitats, they also act as stepping stones in the environment, allowing species to move freely across the landscape, and natural habitats would also be much more fragmented if not for colliery spoil.

In regenerating areas surrounding tips during reclamation processes, we should consider the value of these tips, the areas around them, and maximise the benefits, which are geological—they provide access to fossils and minerals; archeological—historical structures and remains can be found amongst the spoil; historical—they offer a visual reminder of our rich coal-mining history that helped create and shape our country, and they also tell stories of family and landscape links; cultural—colliery spoil is an important part of our cultural identity in south Wales; social—often, due to their often open access and proximity to settlements, they are readily used by local people for recreational activities, providing physical and mental health benefits, as they often provide the only open access areas for local people to get outdoors with nature; and, finally, visual—they form visible features that are significant in the local landscape and have strong cultural resonance. They're used in regional and local interpretation.

An example within my region of industrial heritage being connected to the new generation can be found in the development of the Six Bells red paint. This sees leftover waste from a local colliery recycled as pigment and used to create a number of special ochre paints that are unique to the village. I would like to know, therefore, what plans this Government has to link our industrial heritage to our post-industrial communities, to increase awareness for the next generation, to protect much needed open spaces for leisure, and to explore tourism opportunities. Diolch yn fawr.

Our industrial heritage has helped shape our nation. The history of our people can be read in our landscape. Entire communities were built around industry, they provided jobs, a living, and a sense of common identity. The reach and impact of Welsh history was felt far beyond our borders, reshaping the global economy and the way of life for countless people. But for everything it gave, it took; a legacy that equally inspired and injured, that built lives and communities, but has left chronic health conditions, persistent poverty and deep environmental scars.

Across my region of South Wales West, there are more than 900 disused tips, with over 600 of them being within Neath Port Talbot, where I live. The overwhelming majority of these are deemed lower risk, but 39 are within the higher risk categories. It's important to remember that coal tips are not the only type of tip that must be made safe.

In Godre'r-graig, in the Swansea valley, for example, the threat from a quarry spoil tip has been a source of anxiety for many years. The quarry spoil tip has been assessed as posing a medium hazard risk to the community below, and the geology of the mountain on which it sits, which is prone to landslips, together with the springs and surrounding ground water, has created a situation that has caused upheaval and uncertainty. Homes are hard to insure, some families have been uprooted, and since 2019 the children of Godre’rgraig Primary School have been educated in portakabins in a school miles away from their village, often without the provision of hot meals, due to the council's assessment of the risk of the tip to their school. This left parents, governors and pupils absolutely distraught.

A report provided by the Earth Science Partnership—the experts commissioned by Neath Port Talbot Council to inspect the site—identified a medium-level risk from this quarry spoil tip near the school, which is affected by ground water. The investigation found that if the stream became blocked as a result of a severe weather event, there was a possibility that water levels and pressures in the tip could induce material to flow downhill. The cost of removal of this tip alone is estimated to be likely over £6 million.

Many communities across my region and others live under a similar shadow. They live in fear every time it rains, and action on this is long overdue. If these tips do indeed pose such a threat, then our communities must be safeguarded. We know the increased rainfall associated with climate change has the potential to further destabilise tips. Studies have suggested a 6 per cent increase during winters in south Wales by the 2050s, and this risk will only increase. Action is overdue. But this is not a simple safety issue, this is a matter of historical, social and climate justice.

It's therefore essential that action is taken immediately to identify and publish information relating to the tips that pose the highest risk, to engage with communities, and make the tips safe. The arguments for a publicly available register of tips are clear. Respondents to the Law Commission's consultation that were in favour of making a tip register publicly accessible relied most commonly on the need to promote public trust, accountability and transparency. As the Coal Action Network put it:

'We think it is vital that the tip register be made open-access and user-friendly for public trust and accountability—particularly for the communities that have suffered in the shadow of coal tips, with little recourse to action.'

So, I'd like to re-emphasise that our debate doesn't just focus on coal tips. Wales’s industrial base was far more diverse, and so is the waste that was left behind. Coal mining often included the extraction of other commercial minerals, for example, fire clay and brick clay, that would have contributed to the spoil.

The Law Commission's report provides information on types of tips, which are visually indistinguishable from tips from just coal mining, composed of predominantly shaley material, formed from widespread mining of ironstone nodules for early ironworks, and lesser workings of seatearth for brick making. Such tips are widespread across the south Wales coalfield. These tips must also be considered in any type of removal work or regeneration efforts.

There is, obviously, a cost to all this, but the cost of inaction would be far greater, and these tips and the potential risk they pose, such as the one in Godre'r-graig, which is already causing huge upheaval and disruption to communities, must be taken into account. Communities that have been the bedrock of Welsh industry, and have paid a high enough price for that through the generations, deserve to be safe and they deserve remedy, not the loss of their village school, the heart of their community. The UK Government must acknowledge their responsibility in this matter. I hope we can send a clear message today on behalf of our communities to that end.

The Deputy Minister for Climate Change now to contribute to the debate—Lee Waters. 

Well, Llywydd, as the son, grandson and great-grandson of a miner, it is my privilege to respond to the debate this afternoon, and I think, on the whole, what an excellent debate it has been. Nearly 40 per cent of the UK's disused coal tips are in Wales—40 per cent—and our communities are disproportionately affected by the coal tips. We know that there are nearly 2,500 disused coal tips, with 327 in the higher rated category. Now, these are interim categories and reflect the potential to cause a risk to safety and so are the subject of more frequent inspections. It does not mean they're an immediate threat, as Hefin David so well put it in his contribution. And it is the Welsh Government who are funding the Coal Authority to make these inspections, with councils carrying out the maintenance identified through the inspections. 

Now, the motion refers to 'high-risk tips', but we must be clear that being placed in a higher rated category is not the same as being higher risk, and the language we use is important. As Hefin David said, frightening people is irresponsible. And he pointed out the difficulties of prematurely publishing the locations of all the tips. Janet Finch-Saunders said that this was unacceptable. But, we have shared the information with local authorities and local resilience forums to help them to develop management plans. What would be unacceptable would be sharing this information publicly when all the work has not been done, and causing alarm, distress and worry, and, as has been mentioned, an impact on properties and causing a great deal of distress when many of these could be fairly inert tips. We've got to get this right. I found Janet Finch-Saunders's comments on that really pretty irresponsible and poorly thought through, if I may say. 

The subject of the trials was mentioned. Delyth Jewell asked when the alerts will be available on mobile phones to be rolled out. Now, we are trialling a range of technology, and 70 of the higher rated tips are included in the trials, and these go from tilt meters to satellite ground movement monitoring. These are going to run until about 2024. At the moment, it's envisaged that the alerts will be given to local authorities and not made public, because at the moment some of this technology is unstable, it is unreliable, it is being used for the first time. So, I think it's right that we make sure that it is accurate before we start making it widely accessible. 

Let me turn, if I might, now to the issue of the funding. Janet Finch-Saunders said that the Welsh Government is basically acknowledging its responsibility for the problem by allocating £44 million. I found this breathtaking, and I think one thing our mining ancestors would recognise this afternoon is which of the speeches was given by the Tory. I think there's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the emotional importance that this has for our communities. As both Heledd Fychan and Delyth Jewell asked, who benefited from this industry? Yes, our ancestors who worked in the mines benefited somewhat, but the profits belonged to the landed class, many from outside of Wales. The wealth benefited the whole of Britain, not those who worked for it. And it's only morally right that the UK Government recognises its contribution. And the fact we have a litany of Tories, from Simon Hart down, now washing their hands of it shows, for a reason, why they are seen as the party of England and not the party of Wales.

So far, we have spent £1.6 million on inspections. There's going to be a cost of £30 million to bring them up to standard, and a further £5 million a year to maintain them, and then a reclamation cost of around £600 million, and the UK Government has given us £9 million and thinks that's them done. I really would ask them to reflect on that. That is not the sharing union that we talk about, and the more they pull tricks like this, the more it undermines the case for the union. So, I'd ask them to think very carefully about how they play their part in dealing with this legacy of Britain's industry.

The impact of climate change has been talked about, and it really is a dramatic illustration of what impact changing weather patterns are going to have on our communities. The impact on these tips and the consequences for our communities could not be more profound. That's why we need to mitigate the impact of climate change, as well as adapt to the effects already locked in.

Janet Finch-Saunders also asked about the new supervisory authority and will it be independent. Certainly, that is our intention, but we are going to be consulting on this as part of our White Paper, and I hope everybody here responds to that.

There are a number of different reclamation options available in the medium term, and the best option will depend on the specific tip, including its risk status and proximity to sensitive receptors such as communities. An obvious example of a reclaimed tip site is the Spirit of Llynfi Woodland, where over 60,000 trees were planted. So, there is an opportunity here, as well as having to contend with the impact of climate change, of adapting and dealing with the impact of the nature emergency, too.

So, we have the opportunity to effect positive change in these communities, and any longer term programme focusing on reclamation will require thorough engagement with the local communities to explore the wider benefit options, and we have amended the motion this afternoon to accept that. We accept the spirit of the Plaid motion. We think the Tory one is fine so far as it goes, but it has a fundamental missing bit in not accepting that the UK Government has a role. There will be opportunities for our communities from this if we get it right, but if we get it wrong, Llywydd, we will not be forgiven.      

Delyth Jewell now, to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Llywydd. May I start by thanking everyone who's contributed to this debate? It's been very timely and very powerful, I think. 

Janet, as anticipated, really, falsely linked the ideas about the devolution of present powers and tools for the future with trying to deny responsibility for the wrongs of the past. I don't think it's a waste of Senedd time to try to put this right and, in your heart of hearts, Janet, I don't think that you think that, either. 

Heledd made the point that this is about correcting a historic injustice. 

Heledd also reminded us that exactly the same communities that suffered so much with the coal industry are now facing the greatest effects of the climate crisis.  

Just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it should continue. 

Well, indeed, Heledd. I'd also like to thank Hefin for pointing out that Westminster is denying the truth, as many Members have said. 

Thank you for bringing more information about the situation in Caerphilly as well, and I agree entirely that there should be a public register, taking on board some of the points that you have made, of course. 

Peredur has spoken about the price paid by whole communities, the possibilities in terms of regeneration, too, and biodiversity, and we need to safeguard that for the future, of course. 

And Sioned talked about the duality, again, of the legacy of these tips, a legacy that inspired and injured. She reminded us that coal tips are not the only tips, of course, that need to be made safe, and, again, about the practical and psychological toll that these tips take when there's an identified risk but that can't yet be put right. That was very powerful.

Thank you, again, to the Deputy Minister for his response, for talking us through some more information about the trials on early warning systems, some reclamation options, and again reminding us that it's only morally right that Westminster should pay.

Llywydd, when we're talking about tips that stain our mountain sides, we're talking about blotches, stains, smears, marks on our collective memory, objects of shame. They ensure the ugliest, most cruel, perilous elements of mining have defiled and scarred communities. Mining has marked them all, but some marks wear thin. There's a cemetery in Llanfabon above Nelson and near where I live. I know almost every contour because all four of my grandparents are buried there. It's a beautiful cemetery. In lots of ways it's unremarkable, but there's at least one aspect that sets it apart. Along the northern wall, not far from the entrance, there's a row of 11 graves. In the middle of that row is a formal monument, but each of the graves is marked with the same words: 'Unknown. Albion explosion, 1894'. The monument itself has none of the names of those lost souls. It would appear there is no trace of their identity. I always find it hard to grasp how it could be that there would be no trace left of a human being. Perhaps their injuries meant that they were unidentifiable, but surely their families would have given up a list of the missing and the dead. Maybe none of them left behind any family. Perhaps the only people who knew them were the people who perished with them.

A total of 219 men and boys died in the Albion colliery disaster, but these 11 were further robbed in death by that most basic right—the right to have a name, to be known and remembered. A quarter of a century later, Rudyard Kipling chose the phrase 'known unto God' for Commonwealth graves of unknown soldiers. It's just as suitable for these 11 men, since no mortal mourned their passing. They left no trace, no mark, no signal they had ever lived, drawn breath, laboured and died. There is a perverse cruelty in the fact that, in these tips, we are left with a constant physical memory of an industry that, at its worst moments, wiped men and boys from the face of the earth without mark or trace. And those who lived, the lucky ones, had the dust, as it was referred to—in the Valleys, dust doesn't mean something that you just wipe off surfaces; it was the name for the crippling disease that disabled generations of men and left them gasping for breath. That is mining's legacy. So too are these tips the scars that hide in plain sight. We cannot bring back the memory of those known only unto God, but we can honour their memory, and honour the sacrifices of all miners and all who lost so much in those years. We cannot wipe the slate clean, but we can at least try to balance the books. I hope this motion will pass. I hope that, in the corridors of Westminster, some justice can at last be done.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, therefore we will defer voting on this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

We have reached voting time. We will take a short break now to make technical preparations for that vote. 

Plenary was suspended at 18:12.

The Senedd reconvened at 18:14, with the Llywydd in the Chair.