Questions now from party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Samuel Kurtz.

Diolch, Llywydd. Good afternoon, Minister. The total number of Welsh shellfish and general fish vessels landing in Wales has seen a continuous reduction since 2018, a period in which you've presided over the industry and witnessed this decline. To reverse this sad trend, the significance of stakeholder engagement shouldn't be underestimated, especially when it comes to understanding why this industry is facing a downward spiral. The importance of hearing first-hand from industry specialists is well recognised. Therefore, I was concerned to hear that last month's engagement event with industry stakeholders failed to materialise. Given this, Minister, will you give a clear commitment to conduct future meetings with fisheries and aquaculture stakeholders, and can you outline what action the Welsh Government is taking to ensure that this long-standing Welsh industry is protected for future generations? 

I did recently meet with stakeholders from both fisheries and aquaculture—I think it was probably the beginning of this year—because I wanted to engage with them about future stakeholder engagement. I think it's really important that we get the architecture right. I know my officials have continued to engage with them. We're looking at what we can do to make the fisheries industry far more robust. Another area I'm really keen on is to bring new entrants into fisheries in a way that we've done with the agriculture sector, and also to try and encourage more women to go, and I was very pleased to speak at the inaugural meeting of Women in Fisheries.FootnoteLink

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Thank you, Minister, and I notice that you make no reference to the meeting in March and I would ask that the stakeholder engagement with fisheries and aquaculture stakeholders is continued with some urgency. 

But moving on to the Glastir woodland creation scheme, in November of last year, I raised the issue of this, with money being paid to recipients based outside of Wales. Between November 2019 and November 2020, the number of such applicants increased from 3 per cent to 8 per cent, with the total proportion of land involved in these applications rising from 10 per cent to 16 per cent. Well over £1 million leaves Wales to businesses outside of Wales in a move that shows complete disregard for our rural communities.

There have been numerous examples of such businesses buying Welsh land highlighted in the press and here in the Chamber. There's no new agricultural land being created, Minister, and this trend is not sustainable. Therefore, can you provide an update on the current situation surrounding Glastir woodland creation funds and what measures your Government have put in place to safeguard our rural communities, culture and language by reducing the amount of Welsh public money finding its way into the bank accounts of international and multinational companies?

Well, it is a matter of fact that some land in Wales is owned by English landlords. For all Glastir schemes that we have where a payment has been made or committed, of the £251.1 million spent, £4.4 million was made to addresses outside of Wales. So, I don't know if you're trying to create a picture that a significant amount of funding is going out, but that is the fact of what it is. So, that's less than 2 per cent—less than 2 per cent of the money paid out under Glastir schemes goes to beneficiaries with addresses outside of Wales. 

Now, do I want farmland now to be sold to people outside of Wales? No, of course I don't. However, I cannot tell farmers who to sell their land to and I don't think that you or your party would want me to do so. I am very concerned about practices that I am hearing about where people are being cold called to sell their land. I think it's fair to say that some of the farms that are being cold called are perhaps in a bit of a vulnerable position and people are playing on that. And we don't want to hear about anybody in a vulnerable position receiving phone calls like that.

So, as I say, I can't tell farmers who to sell their land to. It is also of concern that we are hearing, again, anecdotally mainly—and I have asked for concrete evidence around this—that we've got large companies coming into Wales and buying up land in order to plant trees to offset their carbon emissions. So, officials are working very closely, and I'm working very closely, with the Deputy Minister for Climate Change in relation to that area, but if anybody has any evidence of that practice, I would be very keen to hear about it.

Thank you, Minister. It's not purely anecdotal, there are given clear examples of these businesses, predominantly London-based businesses, buying Welsh agricultural land for green-washing afforestation, which does play into the hands of the need for increasing our food security here. And yesterday, your colleague the First Minister made some interesting comments about the forthcoming agriculture Bill, particularly around its content and your future ambitions for this important industry. 

We were pleased on these benches that the further delay to the agriculture Bill is down to you and your team looking at it again, given the horrific conflict in Ukraine and its impact on food security. However, on multiple occasions, you've consistently told these benches that the production of food is not a public good, because, as you've said, food is a marketable commodity, and therefore, by Welsh Government standards, falls outside the remit of this important classification. Can you help me better understand, then, Minister, that if this is the policy of the Welsh Government, to not support something with a marketable value, then why do early suggestions show that the agriculture Bill will see Welsh Government support carbon sequestration despite there being a fast-growing carbon capture market? Doesn't this fly in the face of the 'public money for public goods' mantra of this Labour Government?

I'm glad you thought the First Minister made some interesting comments. I thought your leader actually made some interesting comments. He actually said that I stated in committee that the agriculture Bill would not be introduced before Christmas. I do hope, Llywydd, he takes the opportunity to apologise for misleading the Chamber, because at the time I said I hadn't, and I certainly went back and looked at the Record of my committee appearance, and I said that I couldn't give a time, but it certainly wouldn't be this month, as in April, the month we're in now. So, I do hope the leader of the opposition takes the opportunity to put the record right.

In relation to the further delay, I have asked my officials to look at the challenges that Jenny Rathbone raised. There are a number of challenges that have meant the agricultural Bill isn't as ready as early as I would have liked, and I think the rest of the Welsh Government would have liked. The First Minister spoke about the impact of trade deals. He spoke about the impact of leaving the European Union. And as we know, we've also got the Ukraine war, and the food supply is very important. I've always made it very clear that food cannot be a public good because it has a market. So, if you look at the definition of public goods, they don't have a market. So, the carbon capture that you refer to is a public good. However, what we've done, as we've been developing the Bill—and it's obviously been in process now for probably four and a half, five years—is look at what we can do in relation to sustainable food production. And that theme flows through and has flowed through the consultations. When we had the first consultation, back in, I think it was 2017, 2018, I was really keen to make sure the word 'food' was in it. And if you look at the UK Government's proposals, the word 'food' wasn't in there. We were very, very keen to do that. The sustainable farming scheme, which will obviously go alongside the agriculture Bill, is being developed now. And it is really important that we continue to work with everyone, really, including our farming unions. And they're very keen for me to look at how we can have a carbon calculator, for instance, and a group of—and I'm sure you're aware of this because I know the young farmers are one of the signees to the letter they wrote to me, to look at what we can do. So, work with us on this—I'm very keen to hear your views around the agriculture Bill—we'll be sharing a draft—and I know we're meeting opposition spokespeople next week, and perhaps we can have a further discussion.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I want to focus on Sam Kurtz's first question, if I may.

Official figures on the Welsh fleet landings suggest that the Welsh fishing fleet is now at a dangerously low ebb, and if the current trajectory continues, it's in danger of disappearing soon. Overall, Welsh vessel landings have fallen from a high of 11,300 in 2017 to nearly a quarter of that, just over 3,000 last year. That's a huge drop of nearly 75 per cent in the number of Welsh vessel landings. Indeed, when compared to landings of the other nations of the UK, Wales's fleet landings for all species is a tiny fraction of landings in Scotland—a mere 1 per cent of Scottish landings. We're in danger of losing a sector culturally and economically important in rural Wales. So, we need a clear plan in order to ensure a viable future for the industry. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there is one currently, let alone a co-produced plan with the industry. The Wales marine and fisheries advisory group has been under review since the end of 2020. And while, from your answer earlier, we understand that you had an unofficial meeting recently, no formal fisheries stakeholder engagement has taken place since 11 March 2021, over a year ago. Given that the joint fisheries statement and development of fisheries management plans are moving at pace, when do you expect to announce the details of the new enhanced engagement structure in Wales, and when do you expect the first meeting to take place?

Thank you. I quite agree with what you're saying about the Welsh fishing industry, and our concerns about it, and it is so important for our coastal communities. They were two formal meetings I held, actually. Sorry, I didn't answer the question about the March meeting, and I wasn't aware it had been cancelled—I thought officials had met. And those meetings will continue, and I'm due to meet with the stakeholders again—I think it's next month, May. In relation to the Wales marine and fisheries advisory group, as you say, I took the opportunity—it was following the end of the tenure of the previous chair, who I think had been in post for about 10 years—to review the group. And I did conclude that we do need to move to a different approach, going forward, and not expect one sole group to undertake all that we did expect of that one group. So, I will be announcing what we're going to do in relation to stakeholder engagement, probably before the end of this term that we're in now, before the summer.

Thank you very much, Minister. I'm sure that response will give hope to some in the sector at least.

As we know, the sector is integral for our food security. As we've noted, it has huge potential. However, like other sectors, it too is suffering the consequences of the multiple crises facing society today. The fishing fleet is having to make fewer trips per week, or have to focus on the near shore as they have to regularly maintain set gear in the hope of enough catch to cover the costs. All ancillaries have also risen in cost dramatically—steel, ropes, nets and bait, for example. Energy costs for storing fish and shellfish is also a significant issue. Direct sales have been affected due to the implications of the rising cost of living, resulting in restaurants cancelling, or at best significantly reducing standing orders. Packaging and transport courier costs are also impacting the sector, as these increased costs cannot be passed on to the consumer without reducing consumer demand further.

The EU is making provisions with an European maritime, fisheries and aquaculture fund programme to support the EU fishing fleet, together with an EU temporary crisis framework that sets out a much broader package of financial support for member states. Northern Ireland is due to make statements on a support package for the Northern Irish fishing fleet soon, and a joint appeal, co-signed by the UK national fishing organisation, has also been made to the UK fisheries Minister. 

So, Minister, what support is the Welsh Government providing to the Welsh fishing fleet to ensure it survives this current crisis?

Thank you. Well, you mentioned the marine and fisheries future funding replacement, and the proposals for all four countries are currently under development. Officials have embarked on further engagement with our stakeholders to ensure co-production of the scheme, which will support various commitments that we already have in our new programme for government. 

The investment through the EMFAF replacement scheme will contribute to the Welsh national marine plan, the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, as well as the principles and commitments of the JFS, which you'll be aware of, the joint fisheries statement, and fisheries management plans. The UK spending review and budget allocated £6.2 million over the next three financial years to the Welsh Government for marine and fisheries, and that will enable us to make a very positive change to that sector, working with the stakeholders.