Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:19 pm on 10 May 2022.
Thank you very much. Well, in response to the final question, whether it's impossible to see a difference being made to outcomes, well no, that's why doing something about inequality is a key part of what we're measuring here. And I'm very eager not to just talk here; what we need are things that are measurable. And I'm determined to ensure that that is possible in the preventative arena, as well as clearing waiting lists and so on. It's so easy to count how many hip operations need to be done. It's much more difficult to say, 'Well, we're going to see fewer children who are obese going to school.' But I do think that it's important that we focus on that aspect, and I think there will be pressure on us to focus almost entirely on clearing these waiting lists, but I think that would be a mistake, because, if we don't do that, the system will just fill up again. So, for me, it's important that we focus on these preventative measures at the same time as clearing those waiting lists.
And with regard to individual responsibility, it sounds good, but, actually, we spent two years telling individuals exactly what to do, exactly where to go, exactly when to leave their homes, exactly whom to meet, how to meet them. So, that shift is going to be quite difficult to achieve, because we've been quite paternalistic over the past two years. Now, we need to get people to take responsibility for their own actions. That doesn't mean that we're going to leave them entirely alone to do that. We acknowledge that some people can do this better than others, but I do think that we have new things to help us with regard to digital measures, for example, where we can help people to help themselves too, and there's no reason why we can't use those new modern measures to assist us with tackling some of these issues.