6. Statement by the Minister for Finance and Local Government: Local Government Elections

– in the Senedd at 3:58 pm on 10 May 2022.

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Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:58, 10 May 2022

(Translated)

We move on to item 6, a statement by the Minister for Finance and Local Government on the local government elections. I call on the Minister, Rebecca Evans.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour

Diolch. On behalf of the Welsh Government, I would like to thank everyone involved in the smooth operation of the local government elections in Wales last week, and every person who stood to represent their community. I'd also like to update the Senedd on the elections and how we will take forward our relationship with local authorities in the coming months.

These were the first local government elections since we extended the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds and qualifying foreign nationals, sharing the opportunity to participate in Welsh democracy and civic life. This represents an important milestone in our ambition for more accessible elections. We also supported pilots for flexible voting at last week's elections, hosted by four local authorities. I am very grateful to the four authorities who stepped forward and agreed to work with us on these pilots: Blaenau Gwent, Caerphilly, Torfaen and Bridgend. This has been a model of co-production. While the authorities were responsible for delivering the pilots, they were supported by the whole electoral community in designing the pilot models and with delivery planning. Early indications show that these have worked well, and we look forward to the Electoral Commission's independent evaluation in the coming months. This will help identify where we can further reduce barriers to participation in elections. Reducing the voting age and extending the franchise to everyone who lives in Wales sends a strong message that we are a Government that supports and encourages diversity in our local democracy. Diversity amongst our local elected representatives is essential to ensuring that everyone's views and needs are represented, and to enriching local decision making.

Increasing diversity in local democracy was a core theme of the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Act 2021. Provisions including job sharing for executive members and assistants to the executive will come into force for the new local government administrations. We have already enacted the permanent provision in the 2021 Act enabling principal and town and community councils to meet remotely, which supports members who are in full-time employment, have caring responsibilities, or find travelling difficult. And these provisions have been widely used and welcomed.

For the first time for local elections in Wales, we opened an access to elected office fund to support disabled candidates. I am very pleased to say that around 20 candidates have been supported through this fund. We are now exploring how we can extend the fund to support people with other protected characteristics. We have also taken steps to ensure that candidates' and elected members' addresses do not have to be in the public domain. This has been widely welcomed to ensure that candidates, members and their families have some protection from the terrible abuse that has become, unfortunately, too common.

We have worked with and will continue to work closely with the Welsh Local Government Association and One Voice Wales to promote the importance and benefits of being a local councillor. Together we produced a range of materials to support and inform potential candidates. This is another example of how we've worked with local government and is testament to the strong and positive working relationship between Welsh Government and local government. During the COVID-19 pandemic, and more recently as a nation of sanctuary in response to the terrible events in Ukraine, we have seen the importance of that relationship in action, and the strength of jointly developing solutions.

I'm committed to continuing to build on this relationship, and to continuing to work together to face the challenges of the future for the benefit of people in Wales. As testament to this partnership, our newly elected councils turn to their new duties supported by the strongest local government settlement for many years. Because we chose to prioritise local government and health services in the Welsh budget, local authorities were provided £5.1 billion this year in core revenue funding and non-domestic rates to deliver key services—an increase of 9.4 per cent. We're also providing over £1 billion in specific revenue grants and nearly £0.75 billion pounds in specific capital funding.

I know that the risks and impacts of inflation and a stalling economy mean that there are still challenges for our councils, but they can meet those challenges with a firmer financial base, increased certainty from an indicative three-year budget, and the backing of a Government that values and supports public services and local government in particular. I look forward to speaking at the WLGA annual general meeting on 24 June and the WLGA conference in September to discuss our joint priorities for the remainder of this Senedd term. Diolch.

Photo of Sam Rowlands Sam Rowlands Conservative 4:03, 10 May 2022

Can I apologise for being a few moments late? I hadn't clocked the move-around in this afternoon's agenda. Apologies, Minister.

Can I thank you, Minister, also, for bringing forward today's constructive statement on the local government elections, which took place last week? I'd like to join you in thanking all of those who were involved in the smooth operation of last week's election, right from those monitoring officers through to those counters at the counting stations. I'm sure that many Members today in the Chamber also attended those counts last week and have been impressed with the whole overall electoral process, seeing at first-hand the exceptional work and dedication of all those in making the process such a success. I'd also like to join the Minister in thanking all those who stood in last week's elections, including those, of course, who were lucky enough to succeed in representing local communities, but also those who stood and were unsuccessful, sadly. It's really important that we have a range of people standing for election so that democracy can be active, and, of course, candidates putting their heads above the parapet, which is not always an easy thing to do.

As you outlined in your statement, Minister, in last week's election, we saw pilots for the flexible voting taking place across four authorities, and, as you say, early indications show that they have worked well. However, for Caerphilly County Borough Council elections, I understand that around only 180 people took advantage of those early elections over 68 wards. If this is correct, that would indicate that just three people per ward took advantage of this. Initially, to me, this doesn't seem good value for money for the investment required to make that happen. And as you state, you look forward to the Electoral Commission's independent evaluation in the coming months on this, but I'm just wondering whether you'd give us some more insight today on how these pilots went and whether you anticipate that they may be used in future council elections.

Secondly, Minister, in your statement you mentioned that the Welsh Government is taking steps to ensure that candidates and elected members' addresses do not have to be in the public domain. Of course, this is welcome in safeguarding the candidates and councillors, and this is an area we've discussed previously in the Chamber. In addition to this, I welcome your continued work with the WLGA to promote the importance and benefits of being a local councillor. Nevertheless, we did see 74 uncontested seats in last week's elections, which does continue to show that people are worried about putting themselves up for election due to sometimes, frankly, abuse and bullying that faces candidates in elections. So, I'm just wondering what particular action you're planning to take to reduce this abuse and bullying and how you will work with the ombudsman to ensure that their powers are sufficient to deal with tackling this issue as well.

And finally, Minister, something not raised in your statement today is the turnout of last week's elections. As we know, turnout continues to be low at council elections. Some of this could be attributed to people not fully, perhaps, understanding the extensive role that councils and councillors play in delivering our vital services. So, what assessment have you made of the turnout for the elections and what action do you think can be taken to enable more of our citizens in Wales to engage in these really important elections in the future? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 4:06, 10 May 2022

I thank Sam Rowlands very much for his contribution this afternoon, and, obviously, I would associate myself with his comments about the incredible work that we all witnessed, I think, in the counts that we attended, and the care that the people involved in those counts give to the task in hand is really testament to the importance of local democracy. And again just to say 'thank you' to everybody who stood. As Sam Rowlands says, it is an incredibly brave thing to do, especially in the climate at the moment in terms of the abuse that many people face when they do put their head above the parapet to be chosen as the person to represent their communities, but it is incredibly disappointing if you're unsuccessful. So, just a huge 'thank you' to everybody who at least gave people within communities a choice, which I think is important, and that does speak to that important point about uncontested seats.

We do know that the Electoral Reform Society Cymru research says that there were 74 seats that were uncontested this time; that's 6 per cent. It is a slight reduction on the 92 seats or 7.3 per cent at the 2017 elections, but it is still, I think, too high. It is important that people have that chance to see democracy alive within their communities and have a choice of candidates. So, I think there's work for us to do to continue to enthuse people about the potential of a role of being a councillor, because the work that we're doing with the WLGA and with One Voice Wales, actually, in terms of town and community councils, will be important.

In terms of turnout, obviously turnout is always less than you'd want it to be; you'd want to see as many people as possible turning out in these elections, because I think that, over the last couple of years especially, people have seen the real value of local government and what local government can deliver for them in their communities. So, I think that turnout will always just be there as a challenge for us as politicians, but also for our political parties as well, to see what more we can be doing to energise democracy locally and to enthuse people about becoming involved with that.

In terms of the pilots, I think it is too early to give a real flavour as to the pilots today, because it is very early on, but the Electoral Commission is required by law to evaluate those pilot schemes, and they'll be publishing their report within three months of the election. The early indications are that things ran successfully with no operational issues, but we don't know yet the figures of turnout for the pilots. In Blaenau Gwent the centrally located Ebbw Vale learning zone was used as an advanced voting station for all residents of the county, and that included students of the college, during the week leading to polling day. In Bridgend, the polling stations in certain low-turnout wards were open for advanced voting during the week leading up to polling day, and a new, advanced voting centre was created in a school for registered students at that school. And then in Caerphilly, which was the example referred to, the council offices at Ystrad Mynach were used as an advance voting centre for all residents of the county on the weekend before the polling day. And then in Torfaen the council offices in Pontypool were used as an advance voting centre for all residents of the county on the weekend before polling day as well. So, across those four pilots there were some different things that were tested, and I think it'll be interesting to compare the results of those pilots.

I'm particularly interested in terms of learning from those pilots—did they enthuse people to come out who wouldn't normally vote? Did it make voting easier, or did it just make voting more convenient for people who were already planning to come out and vote? So, that will be an interesting test of those pilots. The Electoral Commission did undertake surveys of people as they were leaving those pilot stations, so we should get quite a rich picture of who attended those stations, and why and what they felt about the experience, which will help us in developing policy for further elections. 

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 4:11, 10 May 2022

(Translated)

Thank you very much to the Minister for her statement. The results last week underlined again that the first-past-the-post system isn't working. We've seen an example in Cardiff of Plaid Cymru receiving 17 per cent of the vote and gaining two seats, and the Liberal Democrats receiving 13 per cent of the vote and winning 10 seats. I'm not making a party political point here, because I know that there are other parts of Wales where Plaid Cymru would have lost out if we'd adopted a more proportional system. But would you agree with me, Minister, that it is now time for us to move once and for all from the first-past-the-post system, as we will hopefully see here at the Senedd? I know that there is a way for local authorities to adopt more proportional models, but when one party wins two thirds of seats in the capital, where we are today, there is no incentive there to change the system, is there? So, what are you, as a Government, going to do to be more proactive to make this change happen, rather than just leaving it up to the local authorities to choose? Perhaps, ultimately, some will, some won't, and that would be worse than anything, so I would like to hear your response to that.

I think that the big story from the elections last week is the crisis that has come to the fore in terms of town and community councils. The exceptionally low numbers of candidates, certainly in the area that I live in and know best, has frightened me, truth be told. So few town and community councils had any kind of election, and what we see, of course, is an ever decreasing number being elected uncontested, and they can then co-opt more and more people, which increases the democratic deficit that we want to tackle. So, I don't know whether you intend as a Government to look at this issue specifically. Clearly, we need to look at and analyse some of the figures, but I also want to understand what the reasons are why so few people want to stand for election at the coalface for our communities, and the most important level of representation, it could be argued.

Also, of course, you as a Government have created a status for eligible community councils where two thirds of the council has to be elected to be eligible. So, where does that leave those councils where there are insufficient people putting themselves forward, and what do you think the implications are for that in that regard?

I too welcomed the fact that we don't have to publish the addresses of candidates, but there is a problem that will arise as a result of that, because some candidates do publish their details and some don't, and for those who don't, I'm concerned—what I heard back from constituents was, 'Well, they're trying to hide the fact that they don't live locally.' I'm concerned that those that had valid reasons not to publish their details are tarred by the same brush as those who don't live in the area. So, perhaps we need to ensure that nobody publishes their addresses to prevent this situation, because people might be hiding their addresses deliberately for electoral rather than valid personal reasons

Finally, I'm pleased that the Government is trialling different methods of voting. I'd like to see more of that taking place, certainly, but turnout is still falling in some areas more than I would like to see happen. It does prove to me, the fact that the turnout is still falling, that we need to go much further than what we've seen. I'm sure that the Government intends to do that in time, but hasn't the time now come for us to move towards electronic voting? Those aged between 16 and 17 were allowed to vote for the first time, and I was talking to a large number of them as I was campaigning, and, almost without exception, the question that I was asked was, 'Well, can I do this electronically?', 'Is there an app for doing this?', and, every time, I had to say, 'Well, no. You have to find your way to the ballot box to vote by paper and pencil.' Well, the looks I got back, they said, 'Well, in what age are we living in?' So, what is the Government intending to do to move towards this direction? I can pay my taxes with HMRC via electronic means, so it's not beyond the wit of the Government to move in that direction, and the time has come for us to do exactly that. 

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 4:15, 10 May 2022

Thank you to Llyr Gruffydd for those questions. In terms of the method of election and voting, I think today is an important day in terms of the future of the Senedd and the way in which we'll elect future Members of the Senedd, given the agreement that our two parties have come to and the work that will now face this Senedd in terms of scrutiny of a Bill in due course, when that will come forward.

But I know that Llyr Gruffydd's main point was in relation to the impact of first-past-the-post on local government and what will Welsh Government do to make change happen in respect of a move to STV in local authorities, because, as colleagues know, the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Act 2021 did provide those provisions to allow those principal councils to choose their voting system between first-past-the-post and the STV system. Those provisions are now in effect, but I think this is the point here, that Welsh Government's position is very much that it is for local authorities to choose to make that change. So, Welsh Government won't be making the change happen, but I do think there is a role to ensure that those councillors who will now be potentially grappling with this question have the information that they need to make informed decisions on that, and I did have an interesting discussion with the Electoral Reform Society on exactly that point. So, I think that Welsh Government, if it has a role beyond setting the legislation or bringing forward the legislation that the Senedd has passed, it is more in the space of providing information so that councillors can make the right choice for their local area. I know that is not the response that Llyr Gruffydd would want to hear, but I'd give a straight answer to that one.

And then, in terms of town and community councillors, yes, this is an area where it continues to be disappointing that we don't have full slates of candidates coming forward in all areas, and this is all part of the work that is linked to demonstrating the importance of being a councillor, both in terms of principal councils but also town and community councils, and the incredible impact that, actually, you can have when you have a really, really good town and community council in your area. So, we do need to do more work to understand what puts people off from putting themselves forward. We understand that people are concerned about their other commitments, the time commitment involved in being a town and community councillor. So, there's a lot, I think, that we need to continue to explore there and I'll do so with One Voice Wales as we continue to try and improve the health of our town and community councils right across Wales, looking to those best ones, really, for inspiration as to how we can bring all town and community councils up to that level of ambition that some of them absolutely definitely show.

And then, in terms of the point about candidates' addresses, I think that there are probably further conversations to be had in terms of whether or not we provide that option at all, because that point that Llyr Gruffydd made is an important one in terms of some candidates being criticised for not living locally. It's easier for us as Members of the Senedd, because we can say that we have an address within the Gower constituency, or whatever the constituency, but I don't think that candidates had the option to give the answer that they have an address within the ward. I know that they were able to indicate they were within the county council area. So, there's something, I think, that we can look at there potentially to make improvements in the future.

And then, again, lots to learn on the pilots. I think that, as I say, things seem to have gone smoothly, which is good, and we look forward very much to that Electoral Commission research that will be published and there will be, I'm sure, opportunities for us to discuss that as a Senedd. 

And then, in terms of electronic voting, absolutely, this is something that we're taking particular interest in. I think all Governments across the world are looking to see how we can move to electronic voting. I had the same conversations as Llyr Gruffydd did, I'm sure, in terms of being able to undertake so many other parts of our lives in a virtual way, but then voting itself, even though we try and make it as easy as possible with the pilots, with postal voting and so on, is still very much a traditional activity. So there's definitely a lot to do in terms of modernising and modernisation in that space.

Photo of Carolyn Thomas Carolyn Thomas Labour 4:20, 10 May 2022

I'm pleased to say that Labour won more than all other parties combined in England, but the real success for Labour is here in Wales, where the First Minister runs a popular and progressive Government, and nearly half of all Labour gains across the whole of the UK were here in Wales, which is fantastic. I'd like to congratulate all new councillors and hope they enjoy the important role as much as I did over the last 14 years.

This year's supplement from Welsh Government to councils was a good one. However, the next two years will not be as high, and I see that capital funding will be reducing from the UK Government over the next three years, on top of the lack of European funding. With councils being cut to the bone under 10 years of Tory austerity, and mounting pressures on services, I heard this morning a BBC Radio Wales debate following a Sustrans report about the affordability of public transport and the rising cost of living as a real concern. Do you think that it is prudent that councils use this good settlement towards investing in the next two years, and continue to work positively with the Welsh Government during this very difficult time? Thank you.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 4:21, 10 May 2022

I thank Carolyn Thomas very much for those remarks and join her in, again, congratulating all councillors who have been elected. I know that Carolyn has a particular perspective, having served herself, so she'll be very familiar with the privilege that it is to be a member, but probably slightly sad to see that part of her life gone, because, when I do speak to councillors who have been standing down at this election, and those who, sadly, weren't re-elected, they do talk about their experience of being a councillor with such warmth, about it being such a privilege having that chance to represent the people you live next to. I think that's just a wonderful thing to do, and it's lovely to have this chance to highlight that in the Chamber this afternoon.

It is the case that the Welsh Government provided a good budget settlement to local government in the most recent budget round. That was very much, I think, recognised by local government themselves. I know now that they are very much focused on using that settlement to make the maximum change within their communities, working very, very closely with Welsh Government, as we've done in the period we've recently passed through. I'm really keen now to use this period ahead to build relationships with new leaders and also to build relationships with new councillors, new cabinet members and so on as we move forward, because I think that, working together, obviously, we can achieve so much more. Carolyn Thomas referred to the cost of living, and obviously I think that's something that I'll be working really closely with local government on, alongside the other big challenges that we face together, such as the climate emergency and the nature emergency, and that very pressing issue in relation to supporting people who are coming from Ukraine to Wales to find sanctuary.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 4:23, 10 May 2022

(Translated)

Finally, Mike Hedges.

Photo of Mike Hedges Mike Hedges Labour

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome the Minister's statement. I congratulate all councillors elected at the election, whatever party. I know all of them will do their best for their constituents over the next five years. I also believe that a number of Members here are relieved they will not have to keep on declaring an interest every time an item comes up relating to local government.

I'm sure that, when we see turnout for the 16 and 17-year-olds, it'll be lower than that for the general population. What younger people do not understand—just following on from what Llyr Gruffydd raised—is that they cannot use electronic means of voting, when they can use electronic means of paying for goods. They believe people would be more interested in trying to take their money off them than in trying to take their vote off them. Will the Welsh Government look at electronic voting at future elections?

And whilst I welcome that candidates' addresses do not need to be on the ballot paper, why cannot the first part of the postcode be there, e.g. SA6, CF1, SA2, whatever it is, so people can see that the candidate may not live with an address that they're told of, but they can see they live in their area? The one thing that I've found in elections that people are most interested in is not your politics, but where you live.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 4:24, 10 May 2022

I think Mike Hedges is very right in terms of the interest that people have, particularly in local elections, as to where you're from, where you live and so on. So, I think that's another good idea from Mike Hedges that we can explore as we continue to develop this policy, which gives candidates and their families that level of privacy by not having their address revealed to the public, but also I think gives local people that information they desire in terms of understanding whether or not the local candidates are local to their area. So, good ideas this afternoon, which I think we can definitely look forward to exploring further. 

And then the point about 16 and 17-year-olds voting for the first time is really important. We don't yet have the data on the numbers who exercised their right to vote. It'll be interesting seeing the Electoral Commission's data in terms of the pilot projects and whether they had a particular impact on encouraging 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. We have worked really closely with local authorities, with third sector organisations and other partners, including the Electoral Commission, to increase the number of 16 and 17-year-olds on the register. That, in itself, was an issue, if we all recall, back in our own election, that 16 and 17-year-olds hadn't been taking that opportunity to register to vote. We've also provided additional funding to increase capacity in local authority election teams, so that they have the ability there to do more work in terms of engaging young people, and we've also provided third sector organisations with grants to support the innovative, face-to-face work that they're doing with young people and also with the qualifying foreign citizens to support those individuals to access their right to vote. And we've also worked to increase the availability of resources and opportunities for teachers so that they're able to engage with learners in schools through the work of the Association for Citizenship Teaching, and also the Politics Project, which I was really privileged to be involved with and had the opportunity to speak to first-time voters in schools across my own constituency. And I found those conversations to be really, really wonderful in terms of understanding the young people's particular concerns and their hopes and their fears for the future. So, if colleagues have the opportunity to become involved in that, I would recommend it. And then we continue, as I say, to work closely with partners to identify what's worked, how we can build on these foundations that we've laid, but also what barriers continue to exist.  

So, I think that brings my contribution to a close, but, before I do finish, Deputy Presiding Officer, I do want to say thank you to the leaders who I've worked very closely with, and my colleague Julie James has worked very closely with, who have either retired or who were not re-elected. So, Councillor Nigel Daniels in Blaenau Gwent, Councillor Philippa Marsden in Caerphilly, Councillor Emlyn Dole in Carmarthenshire, and also Councillor Rosemarie Harris in Powys, I'd like to say a big thank you for the leadership that they've shown in their communities. It's been a privilege to work with them. And then also Councillor Ellen ap Gwynn in Ceredigion and Councillor Neil Moore, both of whom are retiring this time—Neil Moore in the Vale of Glamorgan—both of whom it has been a privilege to work with. 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 4:28, 10 May 2022

(Translated)

Thank you, Minister.

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REDIRECT_QUERY_STRING type=senedd&id=2022-05-10.7.423297.h&s=representations+NOT+taxation+speaker%3A26242+speaker%3A26245+speaker%3A26236+speaker%3A26166+speaker%3A26236+speaker%3A26252+speaker%3A26252+speaker%3A26204+speaker%3A26204+speaker%3A26146+speaker%3A26184+speaker%3A26171+speaker%3A26190+speaker%3A26159+speaker%3A26238+speaker%3A26238+speaker%3A26238+speaker%3A24899+speaker%3A26141+speaker%3A26141+speaker%3A26141+speaker%3A26141+speaker%3A26141+speaker%3A26141+speaker%3A26160+speaker%3A26160+speaker%3A26141+speaker%3A10442+speaker%3A26124+speaker%3A26124
REDIRECT_URL /senedd/
REMOTE_PORT 34242
SCRIPT_FILENAME /data/vhost/matthew.theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org/docs/section.php
SERVER_ADMIN webmaster@theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org
CONTEXT_DOCUMENT_ROOT /data/vhost/matthew.theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org/docs
CONTEXT_PREFIX
REQUEST_SCHEME http
DOCUMENT_ROOT /data/vhost/matthew.theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org/docs
REMOTE_ADDR 3.145.48.115
SERVER_PORT 80
SERVER_ADDR 46.235.230.113
SERVER_NAME matthew.theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org
SERVER_SOFTWARE Apache
SERVER_SIGNATURE
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING gzip, br, zstd, deflate
HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; ClaudeBot/1.0; +claudebot@anthropic.com)
HTTP_ACCEPT */*
HTTP_CONNECTION close
HTTP_X_FORWARDED_PROTO https
HTTP_X_REAL_IP 3.145.48.115
HTTP_HOST matthew.theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org
SCRIPT_URI http://matthew.theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org/senedd/
SCRIPT_URL /senedd/
REDIRECT_STATUS 200
REDIRECT_HANDLER application/x-httpd-fastphp
REDIRECT_SCRIPT_URI http://matthew.theyworkforyou.dev.mysociety.org/senedd/
REDIRECT_SCRIPT_URL /senedd/
FCGI_ROLE RESPONDER
PHP_SELF /senedd/
REQUEST_TIME_FLOAT 1731923712.862
REQUEST_TIME 1731923712
empty
0. Whoops\Handler\PrettyPageHandler