It's a real shame that it's been delayed for a variety of reasons. That really is a shame for the globe, never mind for Wales. One of the pieces of work that I want to see happening, and this is part of the deep dive process as well, to get advice on this, is how we can structure the targets so that they can be tightened but not loosened. It's easy to structure targets that can be changed, but I want to put a process in place where those targets can be accelerated but not relaxed easily. I mean, obviously, any Senedd could overturn the entire legislation and relax them, but we want a process whereby some methodology, statutory instruments, regulations—I don't know, something; it's what I have people working on—can accelerate those targets or add in new ones as appropriate as the evidence comes forward from COP and other processes, but not give us the discretion to be able to row back on them for any reason. That's really easy for me to say, but it's actually quite hard to do. So, part of what we're trying to work on is, with these experts, is that possible, and if so how can we do it.

It's about the initial targets, what the 30x30 thing looks like. Thirty per cent by 2030—that's great to say, but what does that actually mean? What is the 30 per cent? Thirty per cent of what? And is it 30 per cent of Wales or 30 per cent of every local authority area or 30 per cent of every community? What are we actually talking about? And then what are the 30 per cent of species that we're talking about? Or is it 30 per cent across all species or what? I don't know the answer to any of those questions yet. So, part of what we're doing is, 'What is the answer? Is there an answer? What's the consensus view?', and then how can we have an accelerating process to get more and more species and pieces of land protected, because we don't also want a system where we've got 30 per cent of land beautifully preserved and 70 per cent of land that's paved. That's clearly also not what we want.

This is all about the balance, how we use the 30 per cent, perhaps, as exemplars, how do we use that as a showcase for what can be done elsewhere in Wales, how can we get as much of the land mass of Wales included, and as many of the species and so on. So, it's an easy thing to say, but it actually turns out to be really, really complicated to do it in a way that's meaningful and actually holds our feet to the fire in a way that I can't just stand up and say, 'Oh yes, 30 per cent of all the land of Wales is currently protected', because that's not where any of us want to be. So, it's not for want of wanting to do it; it's for want of wanting to get it right that we're carrying on with these processes.