Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:46 pm on 24 May 2022.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:46, 24 May 2022

(Translated)

Questions now from party leaders. Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Last week, in response to a topical question that my colleague James Evans put down, First Minister, the economy Minister said that the Welsh Government had spent £4.25 million purchasing a farm in mid Wales, in his words, to secure a permanent home in Wales for the Green Man Festival. The next day, the festival said that there are no plans to move the Green Man Festival from the Glan Usk estate to Gilestone Farm. These two statements are polar opposite. Which is correct, First Minister?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

They're both correct, Llywydd, because they're certainly not polar opposites. There is no plan to move the festival itself from its current successful site, but there is more that those who are responsible for the festival believe that they can do to contribute to the economy of that part of Wales, building on the success of their business. To do that they need more space in which to be able to develop those further possibilities. That's what lies behind the arrangements. I read the transcript of my colleague Vaughan Gething's exchanges on the floor here last week. That's what motivates all of that—it is to build on one of the most successful businesses that we have in that part of Wales. I'm surprised, Llywydd, to find the Welsh Conservatives so adamantly opposed to a successful business.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:47, 24 May 2022

Not at all. Not at all, First Minister. In fact, if the model does prove to be successful, we will be the first to commend you for doing that. But many businesses in Wales who apply for Welsh Government funding have to provide business plans, have to provide robust financial projections, and, ultimately, they then either get the nod or they get the rejection of that money being made available. What we did learn last week was that there is no business plan because that has not been submitted; it is being worked up, as the Minister said on the Record, which you have read, First Minister. So, how is it that the Green Man Festival can secure £4.25 million-worth of Government support with no business plan, when any other business here in Wales would have to submit that very necessary piece of information to acquire even a fraction of that money to support their business plans?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:48, 24 May 2022

Llywydd, of course, Green Man Festival has not got £4.25 million at all. What there is is an asset the Welsh Government holds that is worth more than that sum of money and which is, for the short term, leased back to the original owner in order that they can complete the bookings that they have in their tourism hospitality business and to make sure that the crops that have been planted at that farm are harvested this year. From the very beginning, we knew that the businesses plan from those who are responsible for the festival would be delivered to the Welsh Government in June of this year, and that is what we still expect. We are working, Llywydd, with a trusted partner. We are working with a company that the Welsh Government has known and worked alongside over an extended period of time, as it has grown to be the fifth most successful festival of its kind anywhere in the United Kingdom. We hold the land against the business plan and we will continue to scrutinise the business plan to see whether the objectives that the company have discussed with us can be delivered through it. In the meantime, the public has an asset, which it is able to dispose of, either in the way that we hope, by supporting that business to do more, or, if we aren't able to do it in that way, that asset remains and can be realised in other ways.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 1:50, 24 May 2022

First Minister, the response that the economy Minister gave last week indicated that the Green Man was an exclusive tenant or buyer—it depended on the business plan that came through. Those were his words, and they're on the record. So, there was no other competitive tendering process, there was no other going to the market to offer other facilities to other operators in mid Wales—£4.25 million was made available to the Green Man Festival, in effect to secure them a permanent home. Now, I believe the festival is a successful festival, and I want to see it prosper. But when I get approached by other businesses who have come to look for support from the Welsh Government—financial support—and they have to rightly provide that information with business plans to secure that support, one now has to question: has the remit of the Welsh Government changed so that as long as you're deemed a trusted company or festival, you will secure that money? Because that's the impression you've given here today, that if you are a trusted business or festival organiser, we'll put millions on the table for you and allow you to bring the business plan forward at a later date. You can't have it two ways, First Minister. What's it going to be?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:51, 24 May 2022

Well, Llywydd, I've got used, over the many weeks of doing this, to the fact that the leader of the opposition very rarely listens to any answer that is provided, and simply ploughs on with whatever pre-prepared question he has in front of him, because I said exactly the opposite of what he has just suggested. I did my best to explain to him—I'll try again—that no money at all has gone to the Green Man Festival. But shall I say that to you again, just so that you don't manage to misunderstand it a third time? No money at all has gone to the Green Man Festival. So, Llywydd, is that clear enough, because I think that would help the leader of the opposition to sort out his misunderstanding?

On the basis of a business plan, which we had agreed from the outset will be submitted in June of this year, we will scrutinise the business plan and decide whether or not that site can be made available to that business for its future expansion plans. If it does, then there will be a legal basis on which that site can be used by the company, and the alternative bases were what my colleague was setting out for you last week. Neither of those has been agreed, because there is, as he said, a process still to be completed. In the meantime, no money has gone to the company, no land has gone to the company, no arrangement has been concluded with the company. Now, I hope, Llywydd—I hope; I don't think the Conservative group here hope—I hope that it will be possible to conclude that successfully, because this is a major success story for Wales. The Welsh Government will back that success, and we won't put up with those who seek to undermine it by trying to imply that an agreement has been entered into, when I've done my very best to set out for the Member this afternoon the actual basis on which arrangements have been discharged.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:53, 24 May 2022

(Translated)

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, Raheem Bailey, an 11-year-old boy who should have felt safe in his own school, had to have his finger amputated following a bullying incident. His mother, Shantal, has explained how Raheem has been subject to racial and physical abuse. Now, while Raheem's case, naturally, has shocked us all in Wales and has led to an outpouring of support for him from across the world, his experience is sadly by no means unique in Wales. Show Racism the Red Card's report into prejudice in the Welsh education system in 2020 found that 25 per cent of teachers had observed, responded to, or had a pupil report racial discrimination in the previous 12 months. Sixty-three per cent of pupils said they or someone they knew had been a target of racism. Is it time for the kind of wide-ranging inquiry into racism in Welsh schools that that report suggested, reviewing, for example, anti-racism training, resources for educators, data collection, bullying policies and Estyn's role in monitoring?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:55, 24 May 2022

Llywydd, I agree with Adam Price that the case, as we've heard about it, has been a shocking one, and our thoughts are of course with that young person and his family. No incidents of bullying, whatever their motivation, are acceptable in schools in Wales, and the incident itself is now being investigated by the Gwent Police, with the assistance of the local authority and others, and we must allow that process to be concluded.

As well as thinking about that young person and their circumstances, I think it is right that we think of that wider school community as well. There are young people sitting examinations at the Abertillery Learning Community today; there will be other young people wanting to return to that set of arrangements for their education. It is a learning community, Llywydd, where Show Racism the Red Card has been very recently and very actively engaged in making sure that the training, the awareness, the resources and so on—I agree with everything that the Member said about that—were known about and that they were pursued in the Abertillery Learning Community.

Our anti-racist Wales action plan will be published next month. It will include a significant section dealing with anti-racist action in the education context. I myself am more interested in making sure that we can take those actions—actions that we have agreed, with so many voices with lived experience who've helped us to create that plan—than I am in yet another inquiry.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 1:57, 24 May 2022

When asked what are the challenges when educating pupils about anti-racism in the report, 51 per cent of teachers responded that it was their lack of confidence, and 61 per cent claimed that it was lack of time in the classroom. Educators are under extreme pressure, and workload has been raised as an issue, for example in teacher retention. Anti-racism education is currently being delivered through the kind of workshops by Show Racism the Red Card that the First Minister just referenced. But with half of secondary schools now delaying the implementation of the new curriculum until September 2023, are wider concerns over workload and teacher stress also beginning to have an impact on the well-being not just of teachers but pupils who aren't getting the support and the kind of happy, nurturing and, indeed, safe environment that they deserve, as a result?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:58, 24 May 2022

Llywydd, I absolutely understand when teachers say that they may lack confidence to know how to respond in what are complex territories, and where you may be anxious that you would inadvertently say the wrong thing and make the wrong response, and that you need to be better informed and trained in order to make sure that you can do that. It is absolutely part of our intention as a Government to make sure that all front-line staff, not just in teaching but elsewhere, can have that, so that the confidence issue can be addressed.

I respond less sympathetically to the issue of time. Dealing with racist behaviour or bullying behaviour is not something that you do additionally on top of your ordinary job, and that you need another hour at the end of the day to do it; it's part of what a teacher does all the time in every classroom every day in Wales. It has to be just part of the way in which we would expect anybody confronted with something that is clearly not acceptable and should not be happening—they have to be in a position that they respond to it as they see it in front of them. That's the sort of climate that we want to create in our classrooms in Wales, where everybody is able to have that safe and supported environment, where all our young people feel confident to be there, where teachers are prepared to intervene where they need to, in order to put things right when they see things going wrong. That should be just woven through the whole of the school day from start to finish, and I don't think it's reducible to an argument about not having enough time to do it.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 2:00, 24 May 2022

First Minister, a first case of monkeypox in Scotland yesterday brings the total UK numbers up to 57. While health experts have stressed that risk remains low and that the disease can be contained, to some, this unusual multiplication of the virus will be familiar and seem like an echo of early 2020. The Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS agency has expressed concern that some of the reporting and commentary on monkeypox has used language and imagery that is discriminatory, reinforcing homophobic and racist stereotypes that are not just wrong, but also undermine our ability to respond. Can you set out the public measures that you are taking as a Government, emphasising that, while anyone can get the disease, no-one should be prevented from coming forward to get the medical help they need and help us prevent onward transmission because they fear being blamed or stigmatised? We must reject prejudice in health, must we not, as firmly as we must do in education.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:01, 24 May 2022

Well, I absolutely concur with what the leader of Plaid Cymru has said there, Llywydd. We've had no confirmed cases of monkeypox yet in Wales, but, when I discussed this yesterday with the health Minister and the deputy chief medical officer, he was very clear with us that this was just a matter of time. Wales is not immune from a disease of this sort. We're in the fortunate position, if that's the right way to put it, that, with cases occurring elsewhere in the United Kingdom, we've been able to put our response in place in advance of cases coming to Wales, and that is exactly what we were discussing yesterday: the actions being taken by Public Health Wales, by our health boards, to mobilise a public health response for dealing with cases of monkeypox if and when they do arise in Wales. When they do, the fact that cases may predominantly arise in one part of the population is no guarantee at all that they don't arise in other parts of the population, and nobody should feel that they are inhibited from coming forward for the help that they will need for what is, as we are told, a rare and not normally an exceptionally serious condition, but a very unpleasant and disturbing one. Nobody should be prevented from coming forward for help by any of the way in which this may be poorly reported.