6. Statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution: Justice in Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:35 pm on 24 May 2022.

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Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 4:35, 24 May 2022

But despite all this, we know that our justice system could be so much better. Nobody here will have forgotten the words of Lord Thomas that the people of Wales are being let down by the justice system in its present state. The Thomas commission was, of course, an unprecedented examination of justice in Wales. While there is much we have done in response, there is much more to do.

Today we have published a document called 'Delivering Justice for Wales'. This publication is about both the present, the near future and the longer term. The purpose of the publication is to draw a line under the constitutional turf wars of the past and to stop asking the question, 'Who should run the justice system?' Instead, we ask what we need to do to deliver better justice in Wales.  

So, I don't want to rehearse past failings, but we need to recognise the scale of the challenges we face: an epidemic of violence against women; a shortfall of legal aid services when they are desperately needed, and many people, often the most vulnerable, denied access to the justice they deserve; minority ethnic communities whose relationship with the police is often fragile; and parts of our legal profession struggling to survive and the emergence of legal advice deserts in some of the poorest parts of Wales. The challenge for us is: what do we do about it? 

Today’s publication highlights some of the good collaborative work that is happening now. Even within the current restrictive arrangements, there are areas where we have managed to embed our person-centred approach to justice. Partner organisations have risen to the challenge where they can, such as the work on the youth justice and women's justice blueprints. I'm sure Members will welcome the announcement of a site for the pilot residential women's centre—the first time we'll be able to accommodate women given custodial sentences in Wales. The newly established Law Council of Wales should be another example of strong partnership working, to identify shared priorities for the legal sector as a whole, and to act collectively to address them.

The publication also sets out things we plan to do with our existing powers, such as legislating to build a structurally independent single-tier tribunal service. This will be a major milestone in Welsh justice, including our first ever appellate tier and an increased role for the president of Welsh Tribunals.

We want the publication to spark a conversation and engagement with people who have expertise in any aspect of justice, be they politicians, academics, practitioners, non-governmental organisations or people with personal experience of contact with the justice system. I should say that we did reach agreement with the UK Government to discuss those many Thomas commission recommendations that are currently reserved, but those conversations were slow to start, and they have, once again, stalled. The departures of first Robert Buckland as Lord Chancellor and then Lord Wolfson seem to have removed all impetus. And so, regrettably, we come to the conclusion once again that to achieve the scale of reform necessary, structural change is needed.

Perhaps most importantly, today’s publication shows how improving the traditional justice system cannot meaningfully be achieved without providing social justice. That means tackling society’s greatest challenges, including poverty and intergenerational inequality. It means tackling hate, racism, misogyny and discrimination. It requires early intervention and responding quickly, comprehensively and compassionately to childhood trauma and adverse experiences. Only through joining up policy on justice with the rest of Welsh policy making can we truly find effective ways of reducing crime, or indeed reducing the numbers of family breakdowns, or all the other causes of the immense pressures on our justice system. This is a fundamentally different model to improving the justice system and it needs to be joined up. The current sentencing policy, run from Whitehall, based heavily on punishment, deterrents and locking people up, is counter-productive and failing. So, we believe that the devolution of justice is not only necessary, but is inevitable and we have a duty to prepare for it. That is the second part of the conversation we want to spark today.

We know that the justice system, integrated with all the other vital public services, could deliver better outcomes for Wales. We know the principles that would guide us, and we set out in the publication some of the core components of that future service, but we don't have all the answers. Our plans for the future must be co-produced with all those elements of public services and the justice system. So, this is the start of a new conversation for change, reform and improvement that we want to kick off with today's publication. I hope that all Members will take an interest in this publication, and I hope we can all approach it in the spirit that is intended. We believe that the devolution of justice is not an end in itself, but it's a necessary reform. It is not a conversation about powers; it is a conversation about what will produce the best outcomes for Wales. We have the responsibility to deliver it as best we can for our communities and for the people of Wales. Diolch, Llywydd.