5. What discussions has the Commission had to ensure more of a voice for Wales on the Parliamentary Partnership Assembly: the new EU-UK forum set up under the trade and cooperation agreement? OQ58121

You're getting closer, aren't you? [Laughter.]

During the last and current Senedd, the Commission has supported Members to press for a role for devolved legislatures in the Parliamentary Partnership Assembly. These discussions have primarily been taken forward by committee Chairs, supported by Commission staff. Following this, the Senedd was invited to send two observers to the inaugural meeting of the PPA in May, and we were well represented, apparently, by Alun Davies and Sam Kurtz. On 26 May, the Chairs' forum agreed that engagement with the PPA should link closely with the work of relevant committees, and future delegations will include the Chairs or nominated members of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee and the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd. And I was very pleased to hear, first of all, that Alun Davies and Sam Kurtz had represented this Senedd with honour. But I was also very pleased to read their letter, having represented us. It's good that we were represented, particularly by two such honourable Members, but, certainly, we need to be more than seen and not heard, and it must be very difficult for Alun Davies to be seen and not heard. It makes no sense whatsoever that representatives of this place can't contribute to debates related to devolved areas. So, has the Commission put forward that view to the PPA, and when will this rule change?

As I mentioned in the original answer, the representatives of the Senedd have observer status at present, and that does have its restrictions, as the Member has mentioned. As a Commission, and Commission officials, we'll be very willing and ready to work with the Members who represent us, and the committees that I mentioned, promoting once again additional rights for our representatives as a Senedd, so that we can play a full role in the work of this specific assembly. 

And, finally, Alun Davies. 

I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and yes, being seen and not heard is something of a difficulty. But it was more difficult, of course, for Northern Ireland, because in the long debates, which were reported in the media, about the future of Northern Ireland—and people spoke from all parts of Europe, from all parts of the United Kingdom—there was nobody there to represent Northern Ireland. And that really crystallizes the crisis, I think, we have in UK representation in these matters. We should pay tribute to Sir Oliver Heald and to Hilary Benn, the chair and vice-chair of the UK delegation, who did their best to ensure that we were made very welcome and a part of the UK delegation, and I'm grateful to Sir Oliver particularly, as chair and as leader of the UK delegation, for the work he did in doing so.

But there's a real issue when Parliaments that have the capacity, the competence and the right to speak on particular issues are not represented when those issues are debated and discussed. And I think it's a wider issue of the parliamentary assembly that we're debating this afternoon. It was a particular issue, but it is a wider issue about the structure of how the United Kingdom works, and I'd be grateful if the Presiding Officer and the Welsh Government could work together on looking at those issues to ensure that this place is properly represented as full members of UK delegations where that's appropriate in the future.  

Well, you can have the assurance from this Presiding Officer that I would be more than happy to see us as full members and having full speaking rights on many of these partnership organisations that we as a Senedd are involved in. Both Alun Davies and myself were agriculture Ministers within the European Union. Hilary Benn, in fact, was the Secretary of State for Agriculture when I was agriculture Minister. Even at that time, there were issues around speaking rights for Ministers within the European Union. Those issues continue to this day, and I'm sure that, across this Chamber, whatever our political differences may be, we believe that it is right that, where there are areas that are the responsibility of Senedd Members and Ministers here, those people representing us have the right to speak and make the representations that need to be made on behalf of the people of Wales. 

Thank you, Lywydd.