Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:44 pm on 14 June 2022.
Well, I don't know quite where to start with that, Janet. The level of cynicism shown in your remarks has quite staggered me, frankly, even for your good self. So, I'll try and address some of the things that you raised.
So, first of all, the Living Levels partnership has worked its socks off. It's chaired by John Griffiths, whom I'm sure will make a contribution shortly to the debate, and who was recently joined by Jayne Bryant MS. It's a series of people who've come together because they really care about their area. And the idea that this is somehow conducted in a cloak of secrecy, et cetera, et cetera, is just rubbish, frankly—absolute rubbish. I just don't know where you're coming from with any of that.
In terms of the actual targets, '30 per cent of the land, 30 per cent of the sea, by 2030' is a really great global headline, but we don't yet know what it means in order to present targets. Is it 30 per cent of every local authority area, of every community council, 30 per cent of the overall land mass of Wales? We don't know what it means. I want to have targets that mean something, that mean that we can have our feet held to the fire properly so that, when we have these targets in place, we know what they mean. The biodiversity deep dive is made up of a whole series of experts on this, and a series of stakeholder meetings meeting in parallel. They are the people who will help us do that to make sense of what the global '30 by 30' means. That's a great slogan, but it doesn't translate into a detailed target, and that's what we're working on.