The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Darren Millar.

We'll move to item 7, the Plaid Cymru debate, on hydrogen strategy. I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to move the motion.

Motion NDM8027 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) the importance of developing green hydrogen production to help release Wales’s renewables potential to decarbonise energy, help replace fossil fuels and help provide a long-term solution to the cost of living crisis;

b) that developing the hydrogen sector can help transform Wales’s circular and foundational economy in line with the localisation agenda.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) produce a Wales hydrogen strategy with the aim of being among the countries at the forefront of the development of this new sector;

b) ensure Welsh control and ownership of this new sector is maximised as part of its strategy.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm here today and this motion has been tabled to encourage you to get excited about hydrogen.

I want this Parliament and the Welsh Government to get excited about hydrogen. I can tell you now what I'd like to hear from the Minister. Quite simply, I want the Minister to say, 'I am serious about wanting Wales to be a player in the emerging hydrogen sector.' I'm determined that, with a clear strategy and well-targeted investment, we can maximise the massive opportunities that the hydrogen sector represents for the Welsh economy, for jobs, for communities, and, of course, for the environment. It will be impossible to fully decarbonise the UK's economy without a major role for hydrogen, and Wales can be a big, big winner. 

Wales is home to world-leading hydrogen research and development projects, including facilities at several universities. We have hydrogen capabilities through our wind energy presence; we have the strategically important ports and the infrastructure in ports in the north and in the south; we already have numerous industrial and non-industrial companies with hydrogen expertise. When I last led a debate on hydrogen here in the Senedd in early 2020, it coincided with the launch of a new Wales hydrogen trade association, HyCymru. Wales really can help lead the way in the development of a hydrogen economy as part of a wider UK green industrial revolution.

Now, we already have excellent examples of innovative hydrogen projects. Back in that debate two years ago, I talked about the potential for hydrogen growth in my constituency. We now already have the hydrogen hub being developed in Holyhead by the social enterprise Menter Môn. We have the work on hydrogen by the south Wales industrial cluster, the Energy Kingdom project in Milford Haven. I was reading today about the world's first smart hydrogen hybrid heating system, demonstrated in Pembrokeshire earlier this year. Wales is also the home of Riversimple, that wonderful car company, making electric cars powered by hydrogen rather than batteries. It's a long list, and it represents the foundations, I think, of a successful sector.

We're a nation rich in the natural resources needed in order to produce hydrogen. Our abundant access to fresh water, and, in combination with that, our vast offshore and onshore wind resources, means Wales is strongly positioned to become a giant in green hydrogen, the form of hydrogen with the lowest carbon. It should form the basis of Wales's hydrogen strategy, which is why we have put it in our motion front and centre.

Now, Welsh Government has already put its toes in the water. That's good. Today is about where we go next, how fast we go there, and with what level of determination. Welsh Government has undertaken a pathways assessment to map out measures that can initiate hydrogen developments in Wales, but, although there is strong multisector activity in hydrogen, we don't yet have a coherent strategic framework in which to steer progress. We need a comprehensive Government strategy to be prepared that sets out clear goals and sets out ambition, and as soon as possible, given the kinds of developments we're now seeing in many countries around the world. For example, setting a target of, say, at least 10 GW of green hydrogen supplied by 2035 would provide the framework for commercial activity to grow, coupled with clear policy signals in taxation, regulatory and other measures to stimulate demand.

We're talking about a transition here from the fossil fuel economy to a low-carbon economy, and hydrogen really is a keystone. It can support all priority areas, if you look at it, within the programmes of UK and devolved Governments in green technology, in innovation, clean growth, green recovery and the infrastructure needed in that drive to net zero. And, of course, there are elements that are devolved, elements that are not devolved currently, and there'll have to be partnership working. But, if we can get this right, the hydrogen economy really could be adopted swiftly in Wales, and it could be a model and a launch pad for the rest of the UK. Other nations and regions of Europe have already developed clear pathways for hydrogen, notably the Netherlands, which provide a ready-made template for Wales. We share many characteristics with these other countries and regions that are leading the way in hydrogen.

So, I mentioned the setting of a hydrogen-production target. There are a number of other tangible and proactive steps that need to be taken to develop our hydrogen supply chain, for example, introducing changes to the transportation sector. Of course, all of this will create highly skilled jobs. In my own constituency, when I look at the old Anglesey Aluminium site, a hugely important, strategic site, I see the potential for hydrogen. When I consider the jobs lost in the Amlwch area in recent years—the north of the island, from where a former crude oil pipeline still runs across the north of Wales—I see the potential for hydrogen production and a means to distribute it. But we're talking here about economic opportunities throughout Wales. That's why we need the plan, with financial incentives, like the introduction of hydrogen scale-up funds, say, in facilitating the development of critical hydrogen infrastructure. And if the plan I outline today lacks some of the detail needed, which of course it does, because this is about setting out the vision, then Government and policy makers can feel confident that they can draw on the expertise and insights of those already driving innovative projects in hydrogen in Wales who do have the answers to those questions of how to create a thriving hydrogen sector, to build a sustainable supply chain, to understand hydrogen as an energy sector, to help with upscaling as required, and to learn lessons as we go along.

Most crucially of all—I make the point again—Wales needs to act now or risk losing its competitive advantage—and talent also—to other nations. Hydrogen will not fix all our decarbonisation problems in fell swoop, but its role in Wales's decarbonisation plans really cannot be overstated. So, let us today make a clear statement that Wales wants to be an innovator in hydrogen, tackling climate change, transitioning to a new kind of industry, changing communities, creating jobs. Plaid Cymru is determined that Wales must be a part of that revolution. I'm glad the Members on the Conservative benches see the potential that we're outlining today. We're happy to support the amendment calling for pilot schemes on community use of hydrogen.

I began by saying what I wanted to hear the Minister say today, and I'm pretty hopeful that I will be hearing some very positive words from the Minister, but let me just add this. I'm looking for more than just words—I'm looking for signs of a new energy. This has to be a 'we will leave no stone unturned' moment. We're at the advent of a new industry, and now is the time for Wales to roll up its sleeves, and that has to start with a new national strategy for hydrogen, a clear plan for the journey ahead. So, please support our motion today.

I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Add as new sub-point at the end of point 2:

deliver a hydrogen neighbourhood trial by 2023, followed by a large hydrogen village trial by 2025, and potentially a hydrogen town pilot before the end of the decade.

Amendment 1 moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and as you say, I move the amendment tabled in the name of Darren Millar MS.

In the face of the cost-of-living crisis and the urgent need to replace fossil fuels, we need to be ambitious in our pursuit of alternative energy sources. As you know, hydrogen could actually displace natural gas in heating systems, or even be used as a storage medium for renewable electricity. Importantly, we are not starting from scratch. Wales might already be on the way to being a hydrogen hub. The SME Riversimple is designing, building and testing innovative hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles. The Dolphyn flow study is exploring the feasibility of a 100 MW to 300 MW commercial hydrogen windfarm off south Wales, and then of course there is the hydrogen centre at Baglan Energy Park. The UK Government has announced capital funding up to £4.8 million, subject to a business case, for the Holyhead hydrogen hub, and is also backing HyNet, which by 2030 will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 10 millions tonnes every year, the equivalent of taking 4 million cars off the road.

However, there is room, as Rhun has said, for us to be even more ambitious for Wales. Whilst the UK Government has committed to pioneering trials of hydrogen heating, beginning with a hydrogen neighbourhood trial by 2023, followed by a large hydrogen village trial by 2025, and potentially a hydrogen town pilot before the end of the decade, Minister, I share Rhun's concerns about this energy we need from your Government as to why won't you do the same here in Wales. I see no reason why the UK Government can pursue the goal of delivering a hydrogen village trial for, say, up to 2,000 properties by 2025, and we cannot do this. In fact, we are already considerably behind England, where the UK Government is minded to fund a potential village trial location in north-west England, exploring the supply of blue hydrogen to cover over 1,900 properties, and a potential village trial location in the north-east of England exploring a range of green and negative carbon hydrogen supply methods, with grey hydrogen as a back-up option to over 1,800 meter points. In fact, we're even behind Scotland, where about 300 homes in the area of Levenmouth will be powered by green hydrogen gas in a project called H100. Customers will be offered free hydrogen-ready boilers and cookers in this scheme, which will initially last five and a half years. This is amazing and, as such, I hope that you will agree to take the first step to follow the example set by Scotland and England by backing these amendments, and thank you to Plaid Cymru for supporting our amendment.

At present here in Wales, your ambition is limited, with commitments to, for example, only establishing one renewable hydrogen production site by 2023-4. It's not good enough. It's not quick enough. Nor is the fact that we don't even have a long-term plan to make hydrogen zero carbon. So, Plaid Cymru, you can certainly count on the Welsh Conservatives' support today. We should produce a Wales hydrogen strategy with the aim of being among the countries at the forefront of the development of this new sector. However, bear in mind we need to back this amendment, which you're doing, but we need the Minister to support it so to at least catch up with our British neighbours, let alone for us to lead.

Obviously, our priority is to deliver the use of hydrogen to reduce the burden of cost on our residents and our businesses. In theory, I have no issue with supporting Welsh control and ownership, but if the expertise required to deliver on the ambitions we have for hydrogen in Wales are outside of our border, we should not be afraid to look elsewhere for assistance whilst developing the skill set here. In reality, I think it only fair to suggest that hydrogen, like nuclear, has not been receiving its fair share of attention from the Welsh Government. So, I do hope that this debate today can transform that situation so that the lightest element receives the heaviest ministerial attention. Thank you.

I'm pleased to be able to speak in this important debate today. Over the next 10 years, we need to see serious action taken to address the climate emergency and, of course, a move to renewable energy. But, we must be sure to highlight that green hydrogen is very different to blue or grey hydrogen and that they should not be treated the same. To quote the former chair of the UK Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Association,

'I believe passionately that I would be betraying future generations by remaining silent on that fact that blue hydrogen is at best an expensive distraction, and at worst a lock-in for continued fossil fuel use that guarantees we will fail to meet our decarbonisation goals'.

Mr Jackson's statement has been corroborated by a recent peer-reviewed study on blue hydrogen from Cornell and Stanford universities, which concluded that, even with carbon capture, blue hydrogen is dirtier than simply burning natural gas. It is along these lines that I feel I must use today's debate to air my concerns about the proposed HyNet hydrogen and carbon capture storage in north Wales.

The project promotes the continued use of fossil fuels to produce hydrogen and to use carbon capture, which in itself is strongly intensive, to store the carbon dioxide released. It could make Wales the exhaust pipe for Cheshire businesses and have a local and global environmental impact. There are currently just a handful of commercially working carbon capture schemes, and all have problems. The main issue beside cost is leakages, whether from pipes or natural storage. Where leaks occur, they are easy to hide, particularly under the sea bed. I attended a HyNet meeting and a geologist was there, and he raised concerns at that meeting. I have not been in touch with him since about it, but I just wanted to pass on those concerns. 

Already, the increased carbon dioxide taken up in the oceans is having a major effect on animal life, due to acidification, which is on top of the global rise in sea temperature. The proposed plans could worsen habitat loss and threaten marine biodiversity further. I have also been warned that blue hydrogen can be unstable and combustible, dispensing methane into the air. I feel more detailed research is needed into the possible environmental risks of the mass carbon capture and storage proposed by the project, because I'm not an expert, it's just what I'm being told. However, fundamentally, we should be encouraging the decarbonisation of industry and homes here in Wales. The appeal of this project appears to be the ability to continue with life as usual, advertising that household appliances and boilers would not need replacing, undermining the goal of retrofitting.

Carbon capture is a short-term solution to the climate emergency, when the focus ought to be on achieving long-term sustainability, and any hydrogen strategy must have a focus on green hydrogen. I also would like to raise concerns that have been shared with me recently regarding capacity for increased renewable energy. The ageing National Grid infrastructure is already struggling to cope with increased electricity use and production, with households in my region unable to connect up their solar panels. Serious consideration needs to be given to how we can significantly improve energy infrastructure across the UK to cope with the transition to renewable forms of energy production and the surges that they produce. Thank you, Llywydd, and I welcome being able to raise my concerns here today in the Senedd. 

The Llywydd took the Chair.

We have heard already from a number of people about the benefits that would come from developing the green hydrogen sector in Wales and the need for a clear commitment from the Welsh Government to support this change through the introduction of a specific strategy. My own comments will focus on the impact that green hydrogen can have on transport.

Decades have passed since the Kyoto protocol was signed, and we find ourselves living in a time when, within another decade, our global climate may reach a point of no return. Our transport sector still runs overwhelmingly on fossil fuels, especially oil, and more and more voices are calling for revolutionary, far-reaching change.

Over the past two years, the public debate on decarbonising the transport sector has been dominated by discussions about electric or battery-powered cars, which represent a promising pathway towards reducing carbon levels. As electric cars enter mass production, prices will fall, and batteries will become more powerful as well. When electric cars are powered by renewable energy, they could really help to reduce the carbon footprint of the transport sector. Having said that, Llywydd, there will be some drawbacks in the near future. Battery-powered cars weigh a lot more than normal cars. Also, recharging battery-powered cars will always take much longer than refilling cars with petrol.

As a source of clean energy, hydrogen can play a massive role in the transition to a low-carbon economy. As a transport fuel, green hydrogen can reduce emissions and improve air quality in our communities—something that will be so important that we will be focusing on it tomorrow. And hydrogen can also be used to overcome the intermittency of the renewable ways of powering our transport.

According to Network Rail, up to 1,300 km of railway lines will need to carry hydrogen trains in order to reach the net zero target by 2050. And the Government is aiming to decarbonise 100 per cent of buses and taxis by 2028. That's a very ambitious goal that will require significant investment in hydrogen, especially when we consider the fact that there are around 9,100 buses registered in Wales. And any investment can also help with taxis and private-hire vehicles.

If we are serious about decarbonising transport, the Welsh Government must start thinking strategically about the use of green hydrogen in this sector. Local authorities are already working on this, and public procurement programmes for hydrogen in the transport sector could help the industry increase mass production and reduce prices. Tax incentives could play a role, perhaps, or the introduction of changes to the tax rates for hydrogen, as compared to petrol. They could certainly help to reduce prices. And beyond the transport sector, when the price of hydrogen has fallen sufficiently, hydrogen could help to decarbonise other parts of the economy as well, such as the iron, steel or cement industries.

Wales is home to a large number of bodies that have both an interest and expertise in the field of hydrogen, including academics and start-ups. However, until now, a lack of co-ordination at a national level has held us back. That can change today, as Rhun ap Iorwerth said. We could embark on a green hydrogen revolution in Wales—what an exciting opportunity, if we choose to seize it.

Can I also thank Plaid Cymru for submitting what will hopefully be a very productive debate, which I'm happy to say on these sides of the benches, as has already been mentioned, we will be supporting? Of course, I also find this an extremely timely debate with the hydrogen sector, as a whole, advancing rapidly all around the world, and my own region, North Wales, has already been highlighted as having really unique opportunities when it comes to hydrogen. 

But just before I get into the meat of what I want to contribute, I was reminded this morning, because the Local Government and Housing Committee had a visit to a homeless organisation in Cardiff city earlier on today, and we were reminded there of a really important plaque, called 'the Pioneer plaque'. Some Members may be aware of this. This was placed on the Pioneer 10 space probe that was thrust into space in 1972. There's a reason for this story, everyone. This plaque was put on the probe in case the probe was intercepted by some extraterrestrial life of some sort, and they wanted to put on this plaque some symbols of where the probe had come from. So, they chose five symbols for this probe, and the first one was an image of a man and a woman; the second was an image of the sun; the third was an image of the solar system and our place as Earth within the solar system; the fourth image was an outline of the probe itself; and the final image, a fifth image, was the hyperfine structure of hydrogen. So, of all the things they could have chosen to symbolise life on Earth and the important things that are here on Earth and our place in the universe, they decided to put the structure of hydrogen on there, which shows the importance of hydrogen, not just as the most common element in the universe, but the importance of hydrogen and what it can mean to us as people, and its place in the universe, but of course also the importance, perhaps, to alien life forms.

In responding to the specifics of today's debate, there are three items that I would just like to contribute. The first, just being a bit more parochial, is around the unique opportunities that north Wales has, because we're seeing in north Wales in particular a significant number of renewable energy projects popping up all over the place, and we have already some opportunities around supply change and mechanisms to support hydrogen production. And as outlined in today's debate already, moving towards more renewable energy and hydrogen production is a great way of bouncing through a greener recovery, and also seeing really well-paid jobs, especially in my region up in north Wales.

Secondly, I'd like to focus and contribute and comment in particular on the role of collaboration between Governments at all levels, so Welsh Government working with the UK Government, and also the role local authorities can play in supporting a strategy and plan around hydrogen. A real good example of this—and I've mentioned this a few times in the Chamber—is the role of the Mersey Dee Alliance, which is a great partnership of local authorities across north-east Wales, but also into west Cheshire onto the Wirral as well. The Mersey Dee Alliance are currently working with HyNet, who have already been mentioned here today, to look at those cross-border opportunities in north Wales into the north-west of England around decarbonisation plans as well. I'll quote from HyNet's own words; they say they will 

'unlock a low carbon future for the North Wales and North West England, creating routes for industry to rapidly decarbonise their production. Transport, such as trains and lorries, will use clean fuel and homes will blend hydrogen in to their gas supply to heat their homes with a low carbon fuel, without the need for new appliances.'

So, these collaborations across Governments at UK, Welsh and local government are really important to allow these businesses and industries to work successfully. Another example of collaboration that needs to be encouraged, and in particular around hydrogen, is that of the north Wales growth deal, which the North Wales Economic Ambition Board manages, as it were. Again, that's an opportunity for local government to work with Welsh Government. I know the Minister is already keen to make that happen and support that work and those green businesses coming through those growth deals.

A third point that I'd like Members just to consider is actually through our amendment today, which is the importance of having some pilots in place so we can see in practice how this technology and this hydrogen production could and should work. As outlined in our amendment today, we want to see a hydrogen neighbourhood trial delivered by 2023, followed by a large hydrogen village trial by 2025, and a town pilot by the end of this decade as well. There's a real ambitious set of dates and ideas there, but I think we need to have that ambition if we're going to see this work successfully and work soon.

In closing, Llywydd, I'd like to thank Plaid Cymru again for bringing forwards today's important and timely debate, but also reiterate my point that for this strategy to be a success, it's crucial that we work further on schemes that are a success, such as the Mersey Dee Alliance, such as working with the economic ambition board, and working across Governments as well as seeing trials in place and making the most of opportunities we have here in Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I'd like to start by thanking Rhun for his continued advocacy of hydrogen. He's pushed it for quite some time in Plaid Cymru and in this place. I remember that debate almost two to three years ago; a very worthwhile debate. For Members in the Chamber, Rhun is as excited about hydrogen as he is about Wales going to the world cup, so I hope that shows how much of a passionate advocate he is.

As has already been pointed out in this debate, hydrogen is a particularly promising part of the Welsh green economy. It has the potential to play a key role in heating households, fuelling industry and to create high-quality work in Wales. If we act quickly on this, we have real potential to be leading the way at the forefront globally of this sector, which will bring us both economic and environmental gains. Demand for hydrogen has tripled since 1975, and is continuing to rise. It's thought that hydrogen will account for 12 per cent of global energy use by 2050, and will take off in the mid 2030s. However, transition to net zero and greater hydrogen production in Wales will not occur to the best of our ability and potential without proper Government planning and funding. A long-term funding model for hydrogen is necessary for investor confidence. Green hydrogen production in particular, which I will focus on in my contribution, which requires an input of renewable energy and water, and may, ultimately, release the full potential of renewables in Wales, is uniquely positioned to harness its potential as a country. 

Recognised as being essential for the deep decarbonisation of economies, green hydrogen is forecast to be one of the growth industries of the 2020s. Wales, with extensive natural resources, is well placed to develop locally owned green hydrogen supply chains, building on projects that are emerging in all four corners of the country, and to help release the renewable energy potential in the middle. It's time the Government now advances at pace towards unlocking the green hydrogen sector in Wales by assessing the infrastructure requirements, such as dedicated hydrogen pipelines, identifying local demands for hydrogen, which will likely be transport to begin with, but expanding to heat, industry, power and agriculture, also encouraging partnerships and joint procurement with local authorities and assessing local ownership models for the hydrogen supply chain. Many of the solutions to the current cost-of-living crisis, which is largely being driven by rising energy costs, are purely reactive rather than long term and proactive. But investing in green energy, such as hydrogen, will protect us against us future crises, allowing us to be self-sufficient and bring down energy prices, protecting the most vulnerable who have been hit hardest by this cost-of-living crisis.

Expanding our hydrogen industry also creates the potential for high-quality green Welsh jobs. One in five Welsh workers are in climate critical sectors that may be lost due to net-zero targets. Ensuring that there are jobs that people have the correct training and education for in the hydrogen industry will contribute towards a just transition, making sure that no-one is left behind during the green industrial revolution, and guaranteeing prosperity for workers in Wales. According to a 2020 report from the UK hydrogen taskforce, scaling up hydrogen industries in the UK could support 75,000 jobs by 2035. Doing so will also bolster Wales's foundational economy and improve local economies and communities.

Green hydrogen will also contribute to Welsh Government's circular economy targets. If we want to achieve net-zero waste and carbon neutral goals by 2050, then hydrogen could play a major role. Green hydrogen is well suited to the circular economy also. It has many applications and can be made using renewables. It is a promising alternative to high-carbon fossil fuels in the transport, manufacturing and power sectors. It is thought that shifting to a circular economy could save the Welsh economy up to £2 billion, as well as creating green jobs and ensuring the Welsh economy is resilient to increasing costs and reduced resources.

This is not the first debate on hydrogen that Plaid Cymru have brought to the Senedd, as I mentioned earlier, but I am confident that, over the years, and today, Plaid Cymru have made the case for an ambitious hydrogen strategy, and have expressed the pace at which we need to go.

Thank you to Plaid Cymru for bringing this debate to the Chamber today.

I can assure the Member from Ynys Môn that I am fizzing with excitement about the possibilities of hydrogen. As we transition towards a sustainable future, debates just like this are key to the development of greener, brighter and cleaner futures. Every industry has a part to play in this transition, and the beauty about hydrogen technology is that existing energy infrastructure projects can become important components in the future energy developments. This is especially the case in Pembrokeshire and the wider south Wales region. We are slap bang in the middle of an incredibly exciting time for the clean energy industry. There are numerous sizeable developments in the pipeline, all of which are basing their operations here in Wales. Two of these key players are the Haven Waterway future energy cluster and Milford Haven: Energy Kingdom—key critical strategic national energy assets, key economic gateways on Wales's west coast. The cluster have set out a series of proposals that are set to help support an accelerated low-carbon pathway for this important industrial centre. This means jobs for local people, investment in our communities, but, most importantly, a step closer to cheaper and cleaner renewable energy. This is where the Welsh Government's aspiration should be aimed.

These organisations are standing ready to expand upon existing grid capacity, incentivising the production and use of low-carbon fuels, as well as supporting the Milford Haven waterway SuperPlace ambition, which includes the development and use of hydrogen technology, both blue and green. In total, the Haven energy cluster anticipate that they can produce about one fifth of the 10 GW of low-carbon hydrogen 2030 target for the UK, with Pembrokeshire central to its development. To achieve this, we must become pragmatic and recognise that these changes cannot happen at the flick of a switch, which is why our optimisation of blue hydrogen is very important to our transition and shouldn't be ignored. Therefore, I disagree with the Member for North Wales's assumptions around blue hydrogen; I think if we are looking to maximise hydrogen creation, blue needs to be involved in that transition. By using—

Will you give way, please?

I will give way.

Do you also, like me, welcome the fact that many large north Wales businesses are relying on HyNet in the future and fully supporting it, and that, although there are only 50 years' storage capacity for the HyNet project, this is to provide the breathing space to bring forward the green hydrogen technology that will take us into an even cleaner future?

Absolutely. And I give way to you, Mark, as someone who speaks for north Wales with great authority on this.

By using existing gas stocks and gas-fired power stations, such as the RWE power station in Pembroke, which result in far fewer emissions of nearly all types of pollutants, we can redevelop and equip existing infrastructure to meet the rising demand in energy. Basically, we can get going on hydrogen production sooner while we increase our renewable energy capacity. 

As we continue to make advancements in greener technology, we can then make the jump to fully fledged green hydrogen—a natural progression that ensures that every part of the industry works hand-in-glove with another. Let's make no mistake, Wales can become the beating heart of the United Kingdom's green energy future, but to do this, having the right infrastructure in place is pivotal to achieving our aspirations. There is a huge opportunity to create a low-carbon hydrogen hub in Pembrokeshire, firstly with blue hydrogen powered using gas, and then, finally, transitioning to green hydrogen, as powered by floating offshore wind—

Will the Member give way?

I'll happily give way to the Member for Alyn and Deeside.

I thank Sam Kurtz for taking the intervention here. You mentioned about the possibility of Wales being the leader in renewable technology. Would you agree with me that a good way of doing that would be to disinvest public sector pension funds from fossil fuels and to invest in renewable technologies in Wales?

This is a topic that the Member has made many representations about previously, but diverts slightly away from the topic of hydrogen, which we'll focus on, given that time is of the essence.

If this is achieved, Wales would be able to export hydrogen across the country. But, Pembrokeshire needs a 100 per cent hydrogen pipeline to be built, connecting the Haven to south Wales's industrial heartlands—a pipeline that is already in the pipeline, if you pardon the pun. But if we are to deliver, then these plans must be accelerated and supported by the Welsh Government. By doing so, Wales can be an integral part of UK-wide decarbonisation strategy, mirroring the timeline of offshore wind development at low cost with no regret. Doing this would not just secure our future, but decarbonisation retains jobs and enhances our nation's skill set.

The economic benefits from the development of Wales's hydrogen economy must be part of the bigger picture. Retaining good jobs in Wales in wider Welsh industries is as important as maximising benefits for Wales from hydrogen. That's why the Welsh Government must centralise supply chain procurement, ensuring that manufacturers and producers choose to operate in and out of Wales. The production of low-carbon hydrogen and the goods and services in the value chain present clear, large and short-term Welsh creation opportunities. Perfection is often the enemy of progress, so let's not ignore blue hydrogen production in our transition to a cleaner, greener future. Diolch, Llywydd.  

The Minister to contribute—Julie James.

Diolch, Llywydd. I welcome the opportunity to respond to this debate and to give the Welsh Government's support to the motion. The climate emergency demands that we use all the tools at our disposal to accelerate progress to a net-zero energy system. We are committed to moving our energy system away from fossil fuels and towards renewable energy as a critical path to achieving our statutory targets and our international obligations as a globally responsible nation.

I welcome that the motion provides the Senedd the opportunity to recognise the urgent need to replace fossil fuels in Wales. While there are many failings of the UK Government's energy security strategy, the commitment to new licensing of oil and gas extraction, together with the recent decision from UK Ministers to overturn a local decision to allow new gas exploration, is indefensible. No Government genuinely committed to net zero and committed to the needs of our future generations could continue to lock the UK into dependency on fossil fuels. Here in Wales, by contrast, we stand by our commitments against the extraction of fossil fuels, our commitment to transition away from their use in Wales, and our vision for Wales to scale up renewable generation to at least meet our own energy needs.

While hydrogen is still a developing technology, its unique properties mean it could, alongside extensive renewables developments, have a strong role in Wales's future power, transport and industrial sectors. It may also offer an alternative to fossil fuel heating systems, as has been mentioned by a number of contributors, and Rhun in particular. Wales is extremely well positioned to develop and capture the rapidly emerging opportunities offered by hydrogen. It has a huge potential to reduce emissions and support the economic transition, especially in energy-intensive industries, heavy goods vehicles, rail and potentially aviation. Globally, these sectors are acknowledged as difficult to decarbonise, and hydrogen has a key role in the road map to net zero for those sectors. Llywydd, it's absolutely essential that we look to decarbonise these sectors, and we do not create incentives that lock us into a continued dependency on fossil fuels. While I recognise there is a transition for some sectors in using hydrogen generated from fossil fuels, this must be a rapid transition and as limited as possible. We have to move to the exclusive use of green hydrogen as soon as is practically possible, and I welcome the specific focus on green energy in the motion. And we have to recognise that has been the case for all the emerging sources of new energy. The cost of hydrogen generation is currently high. That's why the development of hydrogen has to be part of a much wider push for greater deployment of renewable energy. The opportunities from renewable energy generation to produce hydrogen when supply exceeds demand must be exploited. Instead of paying windfarm operators to stop generating, we should pay them to provide a renewable energy source that can be stored and utilised when needed.

We are in a cost-of-living crisis, in part driven by high energy costs. We have to ensure that our approach to decarbonising our energy system is a just one for all consumers, including businesses in Wales. Supporting innovation in both the private and public sectors is essential to ensure hydrogen and other forms of low-carbon energy contribute to our Net Zero Wales plan and support the economic and social regeneration of our communities. That is why we have been supporting projects across Wales. Our Smart Living hybrid small business research initiative scheme supported 17 hydrogen feasibility and demonstration projects across Wales. The 17 projects in the first year of the scheme are delivering in all regions of Wales. They range from studies of microgreen hydrogen generation, hydrogen in rural areas, sustainable aviation fuel production, vehicle market development, community-based hydrogen production, and a digital one-stop-shop hydrogen advice and networking platform. A further phase of a hybrid launches next week in Merthyr Tydfil, with support at the same level. This will fund a pipeline of business feasibility projects as well as higher level demonstrator and prototyping work on the ground across the country.

Our track record of supporting world-leading hydrogen demonstration projects in Wales also includes, as many people have mentioned, the Milford Haven: Energy Kingdom, ongoing development of green hydrogen production hubs in Holyhead and Deeside, also mentioned by various Members, and the feasibility work of floating green hydrogen offshore platforms for the Pembrokeshire coast. Other ongoing work we support in mid Wales, Bridgend, Swansea and Neath Port Talbot, with local government, overseas investors and academic partners, including Flexis and South Wales Industrial Transition from Carbon Hub, promises significant take-off in hydrogen supply and demand creation, especially in transport and heat. We will create a pipeline for new Welsh businesses, supporting local ownership and wealth retention across Wales, and as we do so, we are committed to working with the UK Government, and have already been successful in leveraging UK funding on the back of our investment. And whilst of course we welcome that funding, as it is available from the UK Government, it must be recognised, especially by people on the opposite benches, who really could play a role in supporting this, that if we are to achieve our ambitions for 10 GW by 2030, then more funding is urgently needed from the UK Government. I would love to commit Wales to achieving the ambitions set out in the UK Government's 10-point plan, but without a scaling up of funding from the UK Government, those trials will be extremely limited, which is a real shame.

We've supported Welsh stakeholders with their potential bids for UK funding; we'll be learning the lessons from hydrogen heating trials elsewhere in the UK. In the meantime, we are assessing the role of hydrogen and heating in our heat strategy, due next year, and as part of our energy planning work. I hope, Janet, you will be making strong representations to colleagues in Westminster, to ensure a greater level of funding, since you are so supportive of this strategy. It's available to support future projects across all parts of the UK, including in Wales.

Llywydd, we are absolutely committed to Wales being at the forefront of the development of this new sector, and setting out our strategic approach to make that happen. In December 2020 we published a hydrogen pathway, dealing with opportunities for hydrogen across different sectors, aligned with our energy policy ambitions for achieving net zero. Our pathway and its 10 objectives focus on short-term actions driving demand, production and cross-cutting action to 2025. They also set out avenues to plan for larger scale projects, to ensure Wales is well positioned with respect to hydrogen and fuel-cell technologies.

Since the publication of the Wales hydrogen pathway, the role of hydrogen in the energy sector as a whole has become more established. Our pathway defines a set of 'no regrets' actions to position Wales to take advantage of the range of benefits that increased uptake of hydrogen can bring. Reports to the pathway report have been analysed, and initial recommendations summarised, and they will be published very shortly.

The vast majority of respondents supported the concept of developing hydrogen energy applications in Wales, and whilst recognising, as Rhun absolutely did, that this is not a silver bullet, we reflect that view about the increased role for hydrogen across our Net Zero Wales publications as well. As we build on the pathway, this will provide the strategic focus we need to make sure that hydrogen plays that important role in meeting net zero and make sure that Wales is well placed to be at the forefront of this developing sector.

Llywydd, I completely welcome this debate, and the Government will support the motion as proposed, noting the development of the hydrogen pathway as the strategy the motion calls for. Diolch.

I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and thank you to everyone who's contributed to this debate this afternoon. I thank the Minister for her response. I won't speak for too long, I think that the excitement is there and is shared across the benches here in terms of the scope to develop a new sector here and to be at the forefront.

We heard the Minister listing all of those elements of hydrogen developments already happening in Wales, as I did, and as we heard from other Members too. What that tells us is that the foundations are in place so that we can build a sector that truly can make a difference to the Welsh economy as a whole. All of the elements are to be welcomed, they are all small building blocks that, hopefully, will enable us to build upon them.

But that's the aim now, to see what the potential is, and to aim high, because that's exactly what we see happening in other nations. The Minister said that the Government and the Labour benches will support this motion today, and I'm grateful for that. She is supportive because she says that the pathway is a strategy. I note the terms that she used in terms of having a strategic approach and a strategic focus, but I still think we need to bring all of this together and have a clear aim. I remember looking at a report from the Irish Government, 'Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth', and I saw that as a pattern that Wales could adopt. There was a strategy as to how we could make the most of our marine environment. I see here too that we need that kind of focus in a single, clear strategy where everyone knows what the direction of travel is.

But as I said, I have heard that excitement across the benches here today. This won't be the last time that I raise the issue of hydrogen here in the Senedd, but at least we've had a flavour of it once again, and it's on the record here in terms of the potential and what we could be aiming for, because with green hydrogen specifically, this is the future that we could be getting excited about as a the nation. Thank you.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? Is there any objection? No, there is no objection, therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

That brings that item to a close. We won't need a vote or voting time, therefore.