We now move to group 8, which relates to apprenticeships, and amendment 86 is the lead amendment. I call on Laura Jones to move that amendment and speak to the other amendments in the group. Laura Jones.

Amendment 86 (Laura Anne Jones) moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I will speak to all the amendments in this group. As I stated at Stage 2, I believe in a more rounded tertiary education system, including traineeship programmes, employability programmes and apprenticeships, and I therefore continue to be concerned about the place of these programmes within the Bill. Their full inclusion is absolutely essential to improving a sustainable and innovative economy. Amendment 86 exists to obtain further information regarding the responsibility for the inspection or a review of degree apprenticeships. I believe it is absolutely integral that it is made clear that the commission's duty to assess the quality of higher education includes degree apprenticeships.

On amendment 97, I seek to make it clear that Part 4 of the Bill can apply to degree apprenticeships, if the other conditions in section 109 of the Bill are met. Further on this, amendment 114 would serve to clearly define degree apprenticeships in the Bill to ensure the definition encompasses any course that combines part-time higher education and an approved Welsh apprenticeship, as defined in section 109. With this in mind, I also submit amendment 116 in order to add degree apprenticeships to the wider definition of tertiary education in the Bill, alongside higher education, further education and training, and I ask the Minister to consider this.

I note the concerns that the Member has expressed, but I hope it's reassuring to her for me to say they are not actually well founded in the drafting of the Bill, and so I call on Members to reject amendments 114 and 116, simply because they're unnecessary. There is no need to introduce a new, separate legal definition of degree apprenticeships, as they are captured by the existing definitions within the Bill. Also, defining 'degree apprenticeships' separately to 'apprenticeships' risks ambiguity as to whether or not degree apprenticeships are within the scope of the many references to apprenticeships elsewhere in the Bill.

Amendment 86 is also unnecessary, as no further provision needs to be made to ensure that the appropriate quality assessment arrangements are in place for degree apprenticeships in Wales. As I stated at Stage 2, the Bill is clear as to the arrangements for the quality assurance of both further education and higher education, with responsibility for both sitting with the commission. These arrangements already provide sufficient coverage for degree apprenticeships.

Section 54 of the Bill provides for the assessment of quality in higher education, and degree apprenticeships include elements of higher education. This can then allow the delegation to a designated body for higher education quality assessment under section 54 and Schedule 3. This is not dissimilar to the law at present, which is also clear. HEFCW holds a comparable duty at present under the Higher Education (Wales) Act 2015.

I appreciate that there have been considerations within the sector about what role Estyn could and should play in the quality oversight of degree apprenticeships, given their experience inspecting other apprenticeships, and there have been discussions to this effect between relevant stakeholders. The commission will make a final determination on this, and if it is decided that degree apprenticeships should form a part of Estyn's remit, regulations can be made under section 57(1)(f) without any amendment to the current text.

Amendment 97 is also unnecessary. Any arrangement that meets the criteria set out in subsections (2), (3) and (4) of section 102 is already an approved Welsh apprenticeship. I see no need, therefore, to further specify this on the face of this Bill. And so I call on Members to reject these amendments.

Laura Jones to respond.

Diolch, Llywydd. I obviously anticipated the rejection of our probing amendment, but I thank the Minister for providing further clarity on the matter, even though I ultimately disagree with the approach. I am, however, disappointed that my amendments to clarify that Part 4 of the Bill will be applicable to degree apprenticeships as well, as to better define the relevant terms within the Bill, were rejected. I feel this is a great missed opportunity, and I implore the Minister to revise his stance on the matter, going forward. Thank you. Diolch.

The question is that amendment 86 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is. Therefore, we'll move to a vote on amendment 86. Open the vote.

Amendment 86.

Close the vote. In favour 15, no abstentions, 38 against. Therefore, amendment 86 is not agreed.

Amendment 86: For: 15, Against: 38, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 22, Minister, is it being moved?

Amendment 22 (Jeremy Miles) moved.

Move.

Yes, amendment 22. Does any Member object? No, there is no objection. Therefore, amendment 22 is agreed.

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 87, is it moved, Laura Jones?

Amendment 87 (Laura Anne Jones) moved.

Move.

Amendment 87, is there objection? [Objection.] Yes, there is. Therefore, a vote on amendment 87. Open the vote.

Amendment 87.

Close the vote. In favour 15, no abstentions, 38 against. Therefore, amendment 87 is not agreed.

Amendment 87: For: 15, Against: 38, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected