This is a complex area in terms of developing community policy, and I want to go on to that, in terms of what this will mean in terms of delivering those services at the sharp end, and also, recognising that there are barriers, and also that this is about working relationships. I'm very interested, for example, just in terms of the role that Flintshire County Council has played in working with their town and community councils very proactively—you may have been involved in your former role as a councillor—on asset transfer. Because the local authority, Flintshire, the local county voluntary council, groups seeking transfers, worked together. That's what we would want to see across the whole of Wales, and that actually does improve the chance, for example, in terms of facilities, to achieve a successful transfer with the local authority, supported by the county voluntary council, which, of course, we fund to play this role. And also, Flintshire has got a list of all its transferable assets on its website. That's accessible, and it invites bids from groups interested in taking on those assets.

I just want to move on to the fact that volunteers and community groups, as I said, have played a hugely important role in responding to the pandemic, in particular, and the fact that there are also voluntary and community groups—we have them in all our constituencies—who are playing a significant role, for example, in achieving a fair and green recovery. They're working at every level, often under their own initiatives, but engaging with the local authorities, town and community councils, but other landowners as well, particularly in terms of the fact there are so many action for nature groups and environmental groups across Wales.

Just to say, in terms of part of Wales's recovery from the pandemic, we've been working in partnership with the third sector partnership council, which I chair. There's cross-sectoral representation there from across community and voluntary third sector groups. I think the recovery plan is important, and it helps us as I respond to this debate, because as a result of the recovery plan and our response now to the cost-of-living crisis, we are taking the first steps in developing a communities policy. I think Luke Fletcher actually asked me that question in his opening comments, about how we are actually developing new co-productive ways of working with communities. Our communities policy gives us the opportunity, and also this debate, I would say, is a clear guide to that.

Because what we've said, and I spoke at the Gofod conference this morning about this, is that we're aiming for Welsh communities to be thriving, empowered and connected, so that they can rise to meet new challenges. 'Thriving' means that our communities have strong, sustainable foundations, can build on their assets, have the tools they need to deal with adversity and respond to new opportunities. 'Empowered' means that our communities are hardwired into decision making at every level, that they have the capacity not just to influence but to develop ways of working to identify their own assets, needs and priorities, and to make decisions and deliver solutions. I see someone waving at me.