The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Lesley Griffiths, and amendment 2 in the name of Siân Gwenllian.

Item 8 is the next item. This is the Welsh Conservatives' debate on the transport network, and I call Natasha Asghar to move the motion.

Motion NDM8033 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Does not believe that the Welsh transport network is fit for purpose.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I move the motion tabled in the name of my colleague Darren Millar. 

It's no secret that I've been in my role for over a year, and after having conversations with numerous members of the public, various bodies, various organisations, the conclusion that I've come to is that the transport network in Wales is just not fit for purpose. Whether we're talking about roads, railways or bus services, the sad fact is that this Welsh Labour Government has presided over the deterioration of services and infrastructure.

There comes a point when we cannot keep blaming Westminster for matters that this Welsh Government is responsible for. After more than 20 years in power, Welsh Labour has delivered gridlocked and congested roads, an inefficient and unreliable rail service and fewer buses serving communities, particularly in rural areas. We are all road users, whether we drive, cycle or travel by bus. We all rely on the road network to sustain us with the food we eat and the products we all buy—they are all transported by road.

In 2018, our own Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, of which my late father was a member, produced a report called 'The State of Roads in Wales'. This report warned four years ago, prior to COVID, that the lack of money and priority for repairs stood out and that without sufficient funding the roads we have will deteriorate. In oral evidence, the Freight Transport Association described Wales's roads as, and I quote, 'deteriorating'. The Road Haulage Association suggested, and I quote again, that

'the roads are getting worse, particularly where there have been previous patches.'

The Confederation of British Industry broadened the issue to consider congestion as well as condition, emphasising the damage being done to the economy by the cost of delay to freight operators working to timed delivery slots. The committee made a number of recommendations, one of which called on the Welsh Government and local government to ensure that priority and funding was given to cost-effective long-term planned maintenance of our roads network. Sadly, the Welsh Government has ducked the challenge and failed to deliver the modern, safe road network that Wales so desperately needs.

Twelve months ago, the Deputy Minister announced a freeze on all new road building and road improvement projects here in Wales. More than 50 projects to improve the road network, including vital arteries such as the M4, the A55, the Llanddewi Velfrey bypass and the A470 were all halted. Since the announcement of the freeze, I've been trying to find out exactly how much money has been spent on projects that are now on hold. A simple task, you may all think. Not so. The Deputy Minister, in his latest attempt at obfuscation, dated 13 June 2022, said, and I quote:

'The panel are carefully considering a range of cost and benefits in their deliberations, including the estimated financial cost of schemes to Welsh Government as part of their work.'

I'd like to know why the Deputy Minister is refusing to give a straight answer to my question. What is he trying to hide? Is it that thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, dare I say even millions of pounds of taxpayers' money has been frittered away on projects that may not even proceed? The people of Wales, as do all of us sitting here in this Chamber, have a right to know. The Deputy Minister's aspiration to get people out of their cars and onto public transport would have more credence if buses and trains were actually a viable option. But they're not. The number of bus journeys—[Interruption.] I will. I'll take an intervention. Go on.

Thank you. That's very generous of you in your opening remarks. Thank you for that. Would you acknowledge that, prior to Transport for Wales, when the rail network was completely under UK control in terms of its spend, Wales received a mere 0.2 per cent of the structural funds available to England?

I think the issue you're talking about is obviously a contentious one, because it's obviously concerning rail and, obviously, it's something that Welsh Government, as well as the UK Government, have an interest in. However, I don't believe that it's true moving forward, and I think the devolved issue that we have here, the devolved issue that we're focusing on right now, is important. [Interruption.] Yes, absolutely, Russ.

Just to correct the record here, because I think what's important to say is that the Welsh Government were responsible for transport before Transport for Wales in terms of the infrastructure. 

Thank you very much for that, Russ. The number of bus journeys, as I mentioned, was falling even prior to the COVID outbreak. In 2016-17, there were 100 million bus journeys, a figure that fell to 89 million in 2019-20. We've had countless debates and questions in the Chamber, and it's clear that many bus services have not resumed since the pandemic, leaving residents isolated in their communities, many of them amongst the most vulnerable categories, including the elderly, the disabled and those with long-term illnesses. Age Cymru has called for better integration between transport and key services, as well as better lighting, seating and shelter for passengers. And, frankly, I want the same, and I'm sure all of you do too. I welcome the fact that the Welsh Government has finally recognised the importance of bus services after years of chronic underfunding. As one bus operator said to me recently, they have no problem with franchising; it's the lack of funding they are disappointed by. I really look forward to seeing detailed proposals to support bus services in the forthcoming legislation, and I'm keen to see how the Welsh Government will help rural areas specifically afford eco-friendly buses.

It gives me genuinely no pleasure to say that the customer dissatisfaction with the Welsh railway service is the highest in Britain. A YouGov poll last November revealed that 22 per cent of people in Wales believe their local rail service was bad, with only 41 per cent saying it was good. Overcrowding on trains has been an issue for a considerable length of time, particularly when major events have taken place in Cardiff, such as we saw only a couple of weeks ago with the Ed Sheeran and Tom Jones concerts. More than 11,000 services have been cancelled by Transport for Wales over the last three years, and the average age of rolling stock is nearly double the British average. No wonder, then, that Transport for Wales have had to pay out more than £2 million to rail customers in compensation since 2018.

I have spent many sessions in this Chamber talking about Cardiff Airport, which is, and always will be, a Welsh Government vanity project and nothing more. You can show me many complex accounts and various figures in my Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee meetings, but as a politician who likes to call a spade a spade, I will continue to air my concerns about it and its future as well.

Presiding Officer, whether it be rail, whether it be road, or air or bus service, 23 years of Welsh Labour mismanagement and neglect have left our transport service and infrastructure fall into ruin. The failure to deliver a solid transport system that is fit for purpose is sincerely damaging the economy and causing constant angst and frustration for travellers and business alike. Labour here in Wales needs to wake up, smell the coffee and take action to deliver a twenty-first century transport system that Wales desperately needs and that people all across Wales want and rightfully deserve.

I have selected the two amendments to the motion. I call, first of all, on Julie James to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths.

Amendment 1—Lesley Griffiths

Delete all and replace with:

1. Believes Llwybr Newydd is a transport strategy for Wales that is fit for the climate emergency.

2. Calls on the UK Government to provide adequate funding to Wales for investment in the public transport network.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally.

I call on Delyth Jewell now to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. 

Amendment 2—Siân Gwenllian

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that rail infrastructure should be devolved to ensure Wales gets its fair share from projects such as HS2.

Amendment 2 moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. Transport isn't only about getting from one place to another. Investment in transport shows where we are headed as a nation, and it is abundantly clear that the transport network in Wales is not fit for purpose. Any system whereby commuters need to go on a convoluted route via a different country in order to get to a destination in the other direction in their own country evidently needs a radical overhaul, and that is why the Plaid Cymru amendment that I'm pleased to move sets out that rail infrastructure should be devolved to ensure that Wales has a modern transport network and that we get our fair share from projects like HS2.

I'll concentrate my remarks on railways in the interests of time. I've mentioned that the location of the actual tracks we have or, more importantly, perhaps, the tracks that no longer exist, is a massive problem. The comedian Elis James quipped about this on S4C, saying that he was in Pwllheli on a tour on a Friday and Bangor on a Saturday, a distance of 30 miles in the same county. He said, 'On a train, six and a half hours. Six and a half hours, 30 miles, I could forward roll it. That would be faster than the train.' It's funny, but then it also really isn't funny.

So many connections that might and should exist don't, and the lack of railway connection means other societal, educational and business connections don't always happen either. It's not always possible to measure the impact of an absence, but that seems to be what we constantly need to do when it comes to quantifying the cost of a lack of investment in critical infrastructure in Wales over decades.

The Labour Party can't be let off the hook entirely here. The Welsh Government was offered the control of rail by Tony Blair's Government in 2005, but reportedly, because of fears that the Government wouldn't be able to afford liabilities on the assets if there were issues after the transfer, they declined the offer. Transport expert Professor Mark Barry has described this as perhaps the biggest mistake made by a Welsh Government in the history of devolution.

The Wales Governance Centre has calculated that Wales lost out on £514 million between 2011-12 and 2019-20, which we would have received had rail infrastructure been devolved. The Silk commission recommended devolving it in 2014, and it was again rejected in the flawed St David's process—so many missed chances. But, in this instance, we can quantify the cost of not doing the sensible thing.

With HS2, Wales is set to lose out on a £5 billion share of funding because Westminster is depriving us of the full Barnett consequential by unreasonably classifying it as an England-and-Wales project. Let's remember, no single mile of track will be in Wales, and analysis by KPMG found that HS2 will damage Wales's economy by shifting activity to areas the line will actually serve, yet we're treated as though it benefits Wales.

Scotland, where infrastructure and planning of Network Rail is devolved, will get up to £10 billion through a full Barnett consequential. I'll note in passing, Llywydd, that Scotland's railway was in better repair before devolution. It already had some electrification, whereas we only have the track between Cardiff and the Severn bridge even now in 2022. Over the past decade, we've lost out on around £600 million because relevant infrastructure is not devolved. Over the next five years, we'll lose another £300 million and a further £500 million we should be receiving in HS2 funding—all of that lost potential, like the missing tracks all over the country.

We've lost £1.4 billion in rail investment over 15 years because of this flawed ideology and this stubbornness from Westminster as well in terms of how they classify projects. People in Wales pay so much more on an older stock when the same fare in other parts of Europe would get you half way across the continent in luxury. We need to build our way out of this. We need to forge those connections, but none of that, Llywydd, will be possible until rail infrastructure is devolved. So, I commend the Plaid Cymru amendment to the Senedd and I hope very much that all parties will support it.

I very much echo the sentiments of my colleague Natasha Asghar. Hailing from a rural community, I have seen very good public transport, but, far too often, I’ve seen the very poorest of what’s on offer to the people of Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire. Indeed, if you follow the Welsh Government's advice to ditch your car, you are completely and utterly dependent on sporadic timetabling and infrequent access to public transport services. And for some, that’s the difference between arriving on time for a job interview, making that important hospital appointment, or clocking into a shift on time.

Now, there is a bit of a perverse irony from the Welsh Government in calling on my constituents—on our constituents—to ditch their cars and catch the bus instead, yet not take any fundamental steps to ensure that transport services in Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire are fit for the twenty-first century. This narrative just simply doesn’t mirror the policy output and the action of this Welsh Government and, when Welsh Government does inevitably fail, it is local people who pay the price.

But, by now, I’m sure the Minister will know of the level of discontent from the people of west Wales, and born from this frustration emerged SPRAG, following a meeting I convened and hosted with disgruntled rail users as a consequence of inadequate rail services between Pembroke Dock and Whitland and the stations in between—Narberth, Tenby and Pembroke to name a few. Those local rail users continued the discussion and have joined forces to launch the south Pembrokeshire rail action group, a group of dedicated volunteers who are working cross-party to campaign for improvements to rail connectivity to and within rural south Pembrokeshire. Yet the very presence of this organisation and others like it, forced together by inadequacy and inaction, is a direct admission of the transport failures of this Welsh Government.

Because of delay and poor connectivity in west Wales, frustrated local people have taken it upon themselves to achieve change, change that shouldn’t be necessary if this Government believed in a Wales that existed outside of south Wales. But this is about more than just getting from X to Y. When we connect towns to villages, and villages to communities, we aren’t just ensuring travel to and from a location; we are delivering prosperity and creating jobs. If you can travel between your village and the local town centre, you instantly create a whole array of new opportunities, not just for that individual, but for the location as well.

And we’ve seen, first-hand, this in Saundersfoot and Tenby. As a consequence of not being able to travel by public transport to these locations, local businesses were left with huge employment shortfalls, especially the case when it comes to the employment of our young people. Local restaurants struggled to reopen after the pandemic, seaside hotels were left without enough staff to clean rooms, and start-up businesses were forced into operating with reduced hours. Whilst this situation has been seen across the country, as we exit two years of enforced isolation, the problem has been made worse by the inability of businesses to fill employment gaps due to any worker employed outside of the traditional nine-to-six employment hours being unable to access transport to and from work.

And if you consider the number of jobs servicing the night-time economy and hospitality industry in towns such as Saundersfoot and Tenby, then you begin to appreciate how much of a challenge this failure begins to present. So, I return to the point about improving rural transport connectivity. We aren’t just debating the importance of buses on our roads, or trains on our tracks, but the wider issue, created by Government inaction, of how a failure to support a rural, public transport network impacts on businesses, employment and tourism. If the Welsh Government changes tack and invests in west Wales’s transport services, then we can ensure that every community is connected, which can change the outlook and life chances for those who live in those communities for the better. Diolch.

I would like to begin by expressing my solidarity with Rail, Maritime and Transport workers currently on strike across the UK. Rail staff work all hours, seven days a week, to keep the country moving. Far from modernising our railway, the UK Government now want to make compulsory redundancies, with cuts to thousands of rail jobs. The rail workers involved in the dispute include on-train and station staff, cleaners and repair workers, the majority of whom haven't had pay rises for two or three years. These are ordinary workers whose livelihoods are now under threat, despite the fact that rail companies have made in excess of £500 million a year in private profit since the start of the pandemic. Thankfully, in Wales, we have a leader in Mark Drakeford who supports workers and works with unions so that Transport for Wales staff are not on strike this week. The UK Tory Government could learn a lot from the Welsh Labour Government, and the buck stops with them when it comes to disruption.

But it's not just in this respect that I feel the Conservative Party have got lessons to learn. I was shocked to hear calls from the opposition benches last week for an increase in the number of internal flights in Wales. We are in a climate emergency, and such a move will do nothing to support ordinary people to access services they need in their local communities. Twenty-five per cent of the lowest income families do not own a car; they are more likely to live in highly polluted places and not have access to gardens and green spaces—

Are you taking an intervention?

No, I won't, thank you.

No, she's not taking an intervention.

And any fit-for-purpose transport network must put their needs at the forefront of planned improvements. It's for this reason that I was pleased to hear in the Chamber last week that the £2.9 million annual funding subsidies for flights from Anglesey will be diverted to invest in public transport in north Wales, and the region will be made a priority for the 197 trains, which are much needed. As we have seen from the overcrowding, two carriages are just not enough for the north Wales line. 

I very much welcome these planned improvements, which will work alongside already existing initiatives. The Sherpa bus service of Snowdonia has seen 9 per cent growth and 27 per cent increase in revenue, tackling congestion in Gwynedd. There are free bus passes for anyone over 60 years of age, which is much welcomed. Mytravelpass is available for 16 to 21-year-olds, with discounts of 30 per cent—great for university students—and Welsh Government have funded, through Transport for Wales, six Fflecsi bus services, where residents can book by app or phone, and this trial is proving highly popular.

I was also lifted by a recent meeting, which was on the train, on Monday, that I attended, about the work taking place with Transport for Wales, and perhaps this needs to be more widely promoted and published so that everybody knows what work is actually happening. Some great initiatives are being funded through Welsh Government and Transport for Wales, working with operators, such as the 1Bws ticket. Innovation will link buses with rail on a single ticket, which will allow passengers to pay as they go, and there's already a pilot in north Wales to trial tap-on and tap-off technology. Investment will also be taking place in three major schemes: in Bangor parkway, Holyhead parkway and Wrexham gateway.

So, we can see that the vision is in place, studies are being done, and the Welsh Government are providing funding. What is required now is adequate investment from the UK Government. We should, of course, have received our fair share of HS2 consequential funding of £5 billion, but, as we know, the Tories have sold our communities short once again, and the £5 billion has not been forthcoming. 

To have a fit-for-purpose transport network, we need proper funding from the UK Government. If we are to cope with the cost-of-living crisis and the climate emergency, that investment is needed as a matter of urgency, and I hope they will support the next levelling-up funding bid, because the first one they didn't support, which was much needed. And I also ask that capital funding gets made available to invest in highway maintenance, because you can see roads deteriorating right across the UK, not just in Wales, following 10 years of austerity by the UK Government impacting on highway maintenance, and there's an 11 per cent cut in capital funding coming to Welsh Government. I am pleased, though, that, instead of building new roads, money will be diverted to the maintenance of existing highways, which is much needed. Diolch.

Hopefully, I can add a bit of sense to the debate after the previous contribution. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to speak on this debate this afternoon. As highlighted in my question to the Minister for Climate Change earlier this afternoon, this topic is of major concern to my constituents in the Vale of Clwyd. It's staggering that just 53 per cent of people in Wales live within walking distance of public transport, and, even more so, only less than 41 per cent of people in north Wales have access to public transport, and that just can't be right.

Transport-related issues at present are the second highest category of casework that I'm dealing with, second only to health matters, and in close proximity to the number of housing concerns coming through my postbag, showing what a priority this topic is for my area. And sadly we see a whole mirage of issues throughout the whole of Wales when it comes to the most basic of transport. For example, 22 per cent of people in Wales believe their local train services are bad, actually the highest in Britain; only 41 per cent of people in Wales viewed their services as good, the joint lowest across Britain, alongside the east midlands. The disparity is exacerbated across rural and urban areas, with only 29 per cent of people in rural Wales believing their local train services are good. And when they do finally manage to catch a train, it’s on outdated and dilapidated carriages, nearly 30 years old. The average age of rolling stock in Wales is nearly double the average age in Great Britain, with rolling stock in Britain averaging at 17 years old, whereas Wales is the second-highest in Britain, at 30 years old. And how can that be right, Minister? I hear you chuntering away there to your colleague, but how can that be right? 

I wish I could say that these glaring issues are just confined to rail, but that, Llywydd, would not be telling the truth. The distance covered—

Will you take an intervention?

Yes. Of course, yes.

The point that I've not had a response to, in regard to the lack of infrastructural funding on the rail network across Wales prior to Transport for Wales, what is your response to the appalling disregard and disinvestment in Wales? In the past.

Well, I’m glad you manged to finally—[Interruption.] I'm glad you finally managed to correct yourself there, but I’m a Senedd Member, and my job is to deal with what’s devolved to the Welsh Government, and what’s devolved to the Welsh Government is public transport for Wales. Hence the reason my contribution is tailored towards the infrastructure that is run from here in Cardiff, and not by Westminster.

So, the distance covered by buses in Wales has fallen significantly under this Labour Government, with many service reductions affecting residents in the Vale of Clwyd, in particular, residents of Roundwood Avenue in Meliden, who feel as though they have lost a lifeline now that their area has been removed from the local circular bus route, and they now have to walk almost half a mile to reach their nearest stop on the route, which is no small feat for older people or those with limited mobility. Although certainly exacerbated by the pandemic, this follows a trend of gradual decline over the last decade.

Then we come to arguably the biggest infrastructure and transport failure presided over by this Government, which is car travel. Consecutive Labour Governments have failed to build an adequate road network in 23 years of government. Despite the volume of traffic increasing by nearly 25 per cent over the past two decades, the road network has only increased by 3.3 per cent here in Wales, and we still see no major improvements to the A55, running through my constituency, which, as we head into the summer months, I’m sure will be overwhelmed by the increase in traffic related to tourism, tourism that we should be encouraging and welcoming in north Wales, not putting people off coming here due to anticipating road delays and tailbacks. And as we push for more environmentally friendly travel options on the road, such as switching to electric cars, Wales only has 35 charging devices per 100,000 people, compared to the 54 in Scotland and the 46 in England per 100,000.

There has been a clear theme to this speech today, and many other speeches delivered in this debate this afternoon, and it’s one of decades of failure by this Labour Government to solve and fix the pressing transport issues facing Welsh people today on a day-to-day basis. We fail to see any Minister hold their hands up and admit they’ve got it wrong time and time again. Instead, we get false promises, hot air and more dither and delay whilst our constituents struggle. Even earlier today, the Minister for Climate Change addressed my concerns about poor forward planning during major events such as Chester races and sports events, with crowded carriages on the north Wales line, by deflecting the blame to Network Rail, despite this being under the scope of Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government, which I alluded to in the intervention.

Wales needs and deserves an integrated modern transport infrastructure fit for the twenty-first century. This Labour Government should be striving to ensure that the Welsh population are able to use public transport as a viable alternative to private car use. Sadly, the evidence points to the contrary, and, with a moratorium on road building now in place, I expect to see things get worse before they get better, and the truth is, Minister, Wales deserves better.

I rise to support amendment 1, tabled by Lesley Griffiths, Member of the Senedd. Yesterday, I was proud to stand with the rail workers from the RMT trade union on the picket line at Cardiff Central station, alongside my colleague. They are taking a stand for the future of our railway because safety must never be compromised at the altar of profit for private rail companies who also gorge on public subsidy from the UK Government. The Tory UK Government have allowed rail travel—have allowed rail travel—to be prohibitively expensive for working people whilst seeking to demonise—

Will the Member take an intervention?

Indeed.

What would be your assessment, then, of the working people that the rail strikes affect? So, people trying to get to work, students, nurses, doctors, people who make a difference to people's lives on a daily basis who can't get to work. And during a cost-of-living crisis have to actually travel further and spend more money on their travel.

Thank you. I think the very simple response to that is, firstly, you sit around the table together. The second response to that is that the Government has a duty of care to its people on safety and on transport, and they need to get their act together. That same workforce also kept our economy and hospitals alive during COVID. There is a disregard for them. 

Point 2 of the amendment tabled by Lesley Griffiths states that we need the UK Government to provide adequate funding to Wales for investment in the public transport network. We all know that British Rail was a disastrous privatisation, surely, by the John Major Tory UK Government, desperate to continue the ideological dogma of the Thatcher years. As another former Tory Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, said of privatisation, 'They sold off the family silver.' I suggest that your Government is also selling off the toilet rolls. 

Speaking to rail workers yesterday, including RMT Cardiff branch secretary, Trevor Keane, it was really evident how positive rail workers were for the actions and the policies of this Welsh Government to transform rail services in Wales as far as the powers we hold enable us to do so. 

In my constituency of Islwyn, I see the Welsh Labour Government action with the fantastic success of the Ebbw Vale to Cardiff passenger line, which serves the communities of Newbridge, Crosskeys, Risca and Pontymister, because that is indeed one of the transport success stories of Welsh devolution. Last December saw the introduction of an hourly service to the Gwent city of Newport, and now the line is undergoing a £70 million upgrade, with the dualling of the tracks and the installation of new platforms and the upgrade—[Interruption.] I'm sorry, I won't now. And the upgrading of the signal system. The Welsh Labour Government has shown in Islwyn its commitment to the railways and the Valleys communities, and it is just a joy to see the new Transport for Wales livery and the emergence of upgraded and new rolling stock for the Welsh public after decades of disinvestment from the infrastructure fund from the UK to the old Wales network.

Llywydd, I'm confident that the Welsh Government, in its bus White Paper, will tackle that other unedifying legacy of the Thatcher years, the near destruction of municipal bus companies, all at the altar of a far-right ideology. The Tories—[Interruption.] The Tories have inflicted much harm on Wales through the centuries and continue to do so with their policies that place profit before people. In south Wales, we have a railway network primarily of Victorian construction, built to service the heavy industries of coal and steel, and the Welsh Government, with the powers it possesses, is seeking to build an innovative and exciting twenty-first century passenger network that befits the Welsh people.

Finally, the UK Government, as my colleague to my left has stated, would not even electrify the main railway line to Swansea, and have failed to do so repeatedly since. That is how little the people of Wales mean to this UK Tory Government. Welsh Labour will stand up for Welsh passengers and stand up for Welsh workers, and will stand up for the men and women who commit to serving on our public transport system, and I want to say thank you to them as well. 

A well-connected, integrated travel network that's affordable and modern for Wales, is that really too much to ask? Well, it seems so. Transport underpins the functioning of any society. It plays a fundamental role in enabling access to work, learning, health services, social and cultural activities. If our access to transport options is not questioned, then we will continue to see an increasing decline in the Welsh Government's approach to improving transport here in Wales. But I suppose you could say, though, when you do have access to a ministerial car, it is all too easy to forget how most other people get around.

Data shows that the number of people commuting has increased from 1.1 million people in 2001 to 1.3 million people in 2019, a rise of 16.8 per cent. With the onset of the cost-of-living crisis, an increase in the population of Wales, this is surely going to rise significantly further as people begin to seek more cost-effective avenues of getting to work. 

However, even though there's been an uptick in people using rail and bus services, it is nowhere near enough if we are to put public transport at the heart of our fight against climate change. A YouGov poll found that 22 per cent of Welsh residents believe that rail provision is bad in their area—and I agree—with 11 per cent responding that they do not have any local train services at all. More so, 11,000 train services have been cancelled by TfW over the last three years. Between January and October 2021, there were 28 services that were more than an hour late, and at least 340 train services that were late by 15 to 30 minutes during the same period. As a result of the inefficient services, TfW has paid out—[Interruption.] Come on, if this is good, why—? TfW have paid out £2.23 million in compensation to passengers since 2018. When the TfW chief executive is describing himself the train service in Wales as not acceptable, you know something has gone terribly wrong and you know there's no need—[Interruption.]

Rolling stock of the TfW network is the most obvious, depleted and old. The trains being run today are not environmentally friendly, and indeed far from modern. And I have to say that the train I went back on last week was absolutely filthy, but anyway. They belong in the history books—[Interruption.] Yes, of course.

Thank you, and we've shared some abysmal experiences, haven't we, on journeys from north to south Wales? I've listened intently to what you said. I've listened for the best part of the last hour to your colleagues explaining what the problem is. What I'm not hearing is: what would you do differently? So, maybe with the few minutes you have remaining, you could explain what would you do.

Well, we'd certainly use the money that we get here, coming into Wales, we'd actually use it far more effectively, far more efficiently, and we would provide a good transport service. When devolution was first mooted, the links between north and south were going to be made far simpler. This was going to be the democratic heart of Wales. Well, I can tell you now it's a darn sight worse trying to get from north to south now than it was 11 years ago, or indeed at the start of devolution.

One of the largest disparities is the level of spending by the Welsh Government on the north Wales and south Wales metro. No wonder the people of north Wales actually feel it all happens in Cardiff, not in north Wales. At a time when the Welsh Government have spent the past few years wasting money on an air link that wasn't even operating, to then just cancel it altogether without a replacement, sums up the level of ineptitude carried out by this Government. You really do take the people of Wales for granted, and you also see your own time in this Chamber as the Government as being endless.

Well, after recent months, perhaps the scenes witnessed on the train services between north and south Wales, where overcrowding has become the norm, they'll realise the discontent that will face you in 2026. We tend to think because you fail in health, in education and lots of other things of the devolved powers that you have, but it could be something like this—the fact that you cannot get to grips with any reliable transport service in Wales.

Almost all along the coast of Aberconwy, concerns continue to be raised with me about different sections of the existing cycle paths. Your Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, although well-intended with lots of ambitions, is not being delivered. In the heart of the Conwy valley, we have a cycle path that stops in the middle of the countryside, rather than going all the way along the A470 to Betws-y-coed. And in Glan Conwy and Llandudno, there has been painfully slow progress on the Welsh transport appraisal guidance stages of a scheme that was actually needed in 2004.

If Wales is to get ahead of the game and truly modernise, where the mobilisation of its people is at the centre of other policies, you as a Welsh Government need to be more ambitious. You need to spend and legislate to provide proper rail services and inter-town active travel routes. I am confident that bold action on public transport now will save money and improve health and well-being in the long term. Alternatively, of course, you can always give way to your opposition party, the Welsh Conservatives, and allow us to do what needs to be done to give the people of Wales the transport infrastructure that they deserve.

The Minister for Climate Change, Julie James.

Diolch, Llywydd. I can’t resist saying that it’s a shame for Janet that the people of Wales keep re-electing the Welsh Labour Government. A fact that she seems to always pass by.

Llywydd, I welcome the opportunity to respond to this debate. Although, in a week when the railways have been brought to a standstill, airports brought to a standstill and petrol prices are on the increase again, I wasn’t sure whether the Conservatives had meant to table this against their own UK Government, who clearly have no vision of any sort and absolutely no direction.

The Welsh Government, by contrast, has an immensely ambitious vision for the transport network in Wales, and the changes that need to happen to be fit for the climate emergency—a climate emergency that the Tories are quick to acknowledge in theory, but never, ever support in practice. It is a vision made increasingly difficult by decades of underinvestment from the UK Government and a consistent rejection of our requests for devolution. It's really interesting that a Tory Member of this Senedd thinks that funding for Wales is not part of his job. That just explains such a lot about the situation that we’re in.

Our transport strategy, 'Llwybr Newydd', sets out the path that we need to take, but implementation of that strategy requires—

Are you taking an intervention, Minister? 

—requires fair funding from the UK Government.

Minister, are you taking an intervention?

Yes, of course.

I was wondering if you could clarify those comments that you just made there about Senedd Members not being aware of funding for Wales.

Yes, you said it wasn't part of your job, and I'm pointing out that that's hilarious.

Could you elaborate on that a bit more, because I don't understand what you said?

You pointed out that it was not part of your job, and I was pointing out that that was hilarious. 

Our transport strategy, 'Llwybr Newydd', sets out the path that we need to take, but implementation of that strategy requires fair funding from the UK Government. Transport causes 17 per cent of our carbon emissions and has been the slowest sector to reduce emissions. Improving this trend requires radical action to move more journeys to active travel and public transport, and reduce car use.

Wrong approaches to transport have become embedded—approaches that the Welsh Conservatives are intent on keeping, when the science is telling us to do the total opposite. Road schemes are predicated on the idea that traffic growth is inevitable—the view that the economy will grind to a halt unless we provide more space for cars. The climate emergency demands that we abandon this misguided thinking. That’s why we announced a freeze on road building and established the roads review panel.

Road building will no longer be the default response. Instead, existing infrastructure to create new bus and cycle lanes that give people a viable and attractive alternative is what we champion. Yesterday, we laid legislative changes to reduce the default speed limit on Welsh roads from 30 mph to 20 mph. This change will be world-leading. It will save lives, make our streets safer for playing, walking and cycling, and encourage the modal shift that we are seeking.

On buses, a totally new approach is necessary because of the deliberate political decision by the Conservative Government to deregulate and privatise the bus network in 1985. That has led to a bus system designed to primarily serve commercial interests rather than the public interest. In the face of this market failure, we will intervene to build a better system—one that works for passengers, reaches our climate goals and tackles social injustice.

On rail, we have neither the appropriate devolution of rail infrastructure nor a fair funding settlement. If Wales had its share of the HS2 project, we would have £5 billion—billion—into our block grant, enabling us to improve investment into the railway system. We need the UK Government to fulfil their responsibilities to improve the rail network in Wales.

I will, of course, have a lot to say about charting a new course for transport for Wales. We were groundbreaking in introducing our active travel Act. Our approach to transport is underpinned by the well-being of future generations Act. All decisions will be taken considering the long-term consequences for those who have not been born yet.

Building on these foundations, 'Llwybr Newydd' takes a bold new approach. It focuses on three simple priorities: firstly, reduce the need to travel; secondly, allow people and goods to move more easily from door to door by sustainable forms of transport; and thirdly, encourage people to make the change to more sustainable transport.

On bus, we will implement a new model for services, one that will enable us and local authorities to work together to purposefully design our bus networks; one that serves our communities under a fully contracted franchising system. This is the most far-reaching bus franchising plan in the UK, and a vital step to reverse the damage of Tory deregulation. That legislation will take time, so in parallel we're working with the bus industry to make improvements to passenger experience, and these steps are laid out in 'Bws Cymru', our bus plan. 

Our ambitious plans for the metro build on evidence from around the world that shows that if you want people to use public transport it needs to be 'turn up and go'. The climate emergency means the need for change is urgent, and delivering urgent change requires making difficult, transformational changes in line with our well-being goals. That is what 'Llwybr Newydd' sets out to do. We need a fairer deal to deliver it in total. Devolution would bring benefits to decarbonisation and encourage modal shift. But the UK Government has consistently rejected our request for devolution and continuously fails to invest in Wales, including refusing to electrify the main south Wales coast rail line to Swansea—an absolute scandal. We call on them to finally get on board and help us achieve the better transport the people of Wales need and deserve. Find some solutions and stop running Wales down. Diolch.

I feel I've got the poisoned chalice in trying to round this into some sort of conclusion. May I first, though, start by thanking everybody who contributed to this emotive debate? It is important for everyone, because at the heart of this debate today is a question I think all of us in the Chamber and, indeed, people across the country, have a keen interest in: what does a modern transport system in Wales that meets the needs of the communities look like? We've heard several perspectives on things today, and I thank Natasha for opening the debate so forcefully, pointing out that the network here is not fit for purpose, that Welsh Labour are letting us down and our people down, and they're letting the economy down, not listening to the freight lobby that are so dependent on our road structure. She highlighted those many projects that have been frozen, which are locking up our economy further now. Now, we know there is no silver bullet to address all of these things, and it does need a big programme of work between us. We have a wonderful country, which needs connecting, and connecting well.

Delyth Jewell pointed out very clearly in her opening statement that the transport network is not fit for purpose, and we agree with you, Delyth, and that's the premise of the debate today. I know your focus was on rail infrastructure, but there is so much more to the transport network than just rail. As Sam pointed out very clearly, there are poor opportunities in our rural communities. He pointed out the irony of the Welsh narrative against what's really on offer in rural communities, and highlighted those transport failures in his constituency.

Carolyn and Rhianon, I won't dwell too much on your contributions, because they were very much focused in one area and, I think, demonstrated your lack of understanding of the wider strategic issues facing the rural communities across Wales, because it's not all one-dimensional. You have to think about the other wider part of our community, the rural communities, which make up such a mass of our Welsh country. 

Gareth, you pointed out the major concerns in the Vale of Clwyd, and you raised that earlier today and you pointed out the poor access to public transport and reiterated the issues—

Will you take an intervention?

I will, yes. I certainly will.

Thank you, that's very kind of you. Obviously, you're entitled to say what you wish. Could you point out—[Interruption.]

I can't hear the intervention. Can we just hear the intervention and then we can move on?

Briefly, can you point out what it is both Carolyn and I don't understand?

Well, you referenced the rail service and the current strikes, but you're not comprehending some of the questions Gareth put back to you, or the wider issues of the rural community. You focused very clearly on that one area, and I'm trying to point out that the transport network covers far more than just the rail area and those immediate issues that you focused on.

So, yes, the transport network is central to the success of our economy, and it's fundamental to our health and well-being, as Janet pointed out very firmly. It's so important that the transport system is solid, to enable our economy to drive forward. And Janet also highlighted the dire state of the rail network we have  at the moment and the poor conditions of the trains we're currently using. Now, that shouldn't be the project of many, many years of Welsh Labour Government here and we should see something better than that. In many of these areas, the only option people have in rural areas to get around is to drive, but this isn't an option for everyone. For people who do not have access to a car or those who may not wish to drive, the only option is buses, which often do not stop in the areas people need them to and are infrequent, as very clearly Sam pointed out. Taxis are the other way forward, which due to the distances involved can be prohibitively expensive for some people, whilst the nearest train station can be inaccessible for people, due to the points I raised earlier.

And whilst I hear what the Minister says about 'Llwybr Newydd', and I did take some time and read it, and it is actually a good read—and it's very aspirational; it has some really great ideas in it—but it's rhetoric; it's a narrative. What we're not seeing—I know it's spread over 20 years—is actual solutions to the issues here. It has aspirations about rural communities, staying at home, and working from home, and sharing lifts and things like that, but it has to have a lot more than that. We have to have a robust system in place that can get us from where we are now to that great aspiration, and what we're not seeing is those gaps being filled in at the moment. [Interruption.] Yes, I will, Tom.

Do you share with me my disappointment, actually, that we listened to the Minister for five and a half minutes not take a single shred of responsibility for the amount of powers that they've had to sort out the transport infrastructure here in Wales, and instead spent that time blaming the UK Government? They have been responsible for transport here in Wales for a long time, and there has been no responsibility whatsoever in the Minister's response to our debate.

Thank you, Tom Giffard. Sadly, in my 12 months here in this place, I've tended to hear regularly that, where we get into a difficult spot, it's always somebody else's fault. Now, being the leader of an administration myself for many years, the buck had to stop with me—[Interruption.] Yes, of course, Minister.

The Conservative Government should give us the consequential from HS2.

Minister, you will be pleased that we don't disagree with you on that, and we will continue to make that position clear from our benches. But a Government should not continue to divest itself of responsibilities from areas and blame somebody else all the time. Twenty-three years you have been in place. Okay, you may not have had all of the levers all of the time, but you had enough time to create a strategy that could deliver for the people of Wales. And whilst you've got your visionary document, it doesn't deliver in the ways that it needs to deliver as we move forward. I mean, on some of the things that you pointed out, Minister, you talked about the desire for more cycle lanes and active travel. Well, the reality is you cannot run freight up cycle lanes—you cannot—and we have not got a rail infrastructure to convert our lorries onto rail. We still need a robust system to enable our transport to get around. And the road-building ban has caused some significant issues, as was pointed out earlier on, and we can see things like—I'll point to my own area—the Chepstow bypass put on hold. Yet, the road feeding from the A48 into Chepstow, Hardwick Hill—the most polluted road in Wales since Hafodyrynys has been removed—definitely needs us to think on pollution grounds alone to continue that project to do a bypass around Chepstow. That's very clear.

And I think it's also a timely opportunity for us to review how the metros—both metros—are going to impact on rural communities, because metro is a multimodal model of thinking, so what will we see in the likes of Monmouthshire, in Powys, in Gwynedd. What do we see? Will we see rapid bus transit? What's the progress on delivering that? Are we going to see integrated ticketing rolled out in the very near future to join up those public transport elements? We're not seeing them, and yet, these people are suffering now because we're embarking on this expectation to get us all on our bikes, all out of our cars, but the reality is that that cannot happen now. [Interruption.]

No. The Member has been very generous in accepting interventions, and I've been quite generous with giving him time for that. So, I think you need to conclude now.

Sorry about that, James.

I think you need to conclude now.

To conclude, Llywydd, I urge Members to vote for our unamended motion before us today. There's no doubt about it, the structure that we have and the network that we have at the moment is not fit for purpose. We need to get from where we are now to the aspirations captured in the Government's document, so how do we get there? Currently, we haven't got the answer, but people are suffering as a result. Thank you.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection and, therefore, we will defer the vote until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.

We'll now take a short break before voting time to prepare the technology for those votes.

Plenary was suspended at 17:11.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:17, with the Llywydd in the Chair.