Group 4: Expiry of the power under section 1 (Amendments 2, 10)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 7:01 pm on 5 July 2022.

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Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 7:01, 5 July 2022

(Translated)

It's a positive step in the first instance that the Government's accepted the need for a sunset clause, as the Minister mentioned earlier in this session. The Government's original choice, of course, was to do that after five years, with a one-off opportunity to extend the powers for a further five years, and I explained at Stage 2 of this Bill that my concern with that was that it was out of sync with the reality of the electoral cycle and that it wasn't ideal for practical reasons. You could perhaps say the same about the review of the legislation after four years, which would face the same problem, to a certain extent. If there is not going to be a review before the next election, then there will be no motive to include alternative arrangements in the party manifestos for the next election, and nothing in the manifesto would possibly mean that Ministers would say that there is no mandate for change in the next Senedd.

And likewise, in terms of the sunset clause after five years, to decide whether you continue with these arrangements or not, well, that debate, of course, wouldn't happen in the next Senedd until after the publication of the programme of government for the next Senedd, after the legislative programme was published. And I can hear the arguments now: 'Well, we have no scope to change things, we have no time to look at this', and then what we'll have is a kind of default where the five-year extension will be triggered. And, of course, we could find ourselves in the same situation at the end of that Senedd too, pushing the need for further reform not to the seventh Senedd, but to the eighth. So, the aim of the amendments in Stage 2 was to try and reset that timetable, to be pragmatic and to stick to a sunset clause after five years. But my original request was that we should only allow an extension for two years rather than five, ensuring that the next Government would have to get to grips with those broader reforms, rather than running the risk of finding ourselves not much further forward a decade from now.

I'm pleased, therefore, and I'm grateful to the Minister for compromising on this with her amendment 2, and amendment 1, which is consequential to it, which limits the extension of the legislation to the end of the next Senedd rather than five years. And as she said, it's 'up to the next Senedd'—it could happen earlier. My hope, certainly, is that this will help in ensuring that broader reform and alternative arrangements will happen at least before the end of the next Senedd, or, as she suggested, perhaps even a little earlier. Thank you.