4. How is the Welsh Government working with trade union partners to protect the interests of public sector workers? OQ58314

We work in social partnership and are embedding social partnership in public bodies through the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill to drive improvements in public services and well-being. This builds on existing arrangements with, for example, NHS, local government and the cross-public services forum, the workforce partnership council.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog. The Llywydd will certainly be aware that I'll have to declare an interest here as a proud member of two trade unions. [Interruption.] They did know, I believe.

But sadly, Llywydd, we have seen countless examples over the years of bad practice when it does come to supporting workers, and the steps and threats taken by the UK Government recently, not just to undermine devolution but to undermine public sector workers striking for a fair wage, is just the latest in a long line of Tory attacks on workers. But we do do different things in Wales, and it's more important that we continue to work collaboratively with workers and strengthen the relationships with our trade union partners. Can I ask the Minister if she could outline how this could be achieved and whether she agrees with me that the best way for private and public sector workers to protect their interests and their livelihoods and to have a voice to be heard is by joining a trade union?

Can I thank the Member for his question? It'll come as no surprise to others in the Chamber that I wholeheartedly agree with the points that Jack Sargeant made there. I think the approach of the UK Government when it comes to trade unions and workers' rights in particular, and particularly their hidden-away, almost, announcement of their intention to try and repeal the Trade Union (Wales) Act, and their copious attacks across the UK in terms of trying to roll back workers' rights, shows a disregard not just for workers, but a disrespect for devolution as well. And instead of attempting to attack workers who are the backbone of our public services, who are feeling the pinch themselves of the cost-of-living crisis, they should actually go back and re-enact their commitment to an employment Bill, to actually improve the support for people in work and improve their rights.

I agree with you that strong and effective trade unions are not just in the best interests of workers and communities, but our country as a whole, and despite some of the rhetoric we might hear from some of our colleagues—not always in this place, but maybe elsewhere and in the right-wing media—actually, a positive view of trade unions is one that is reflected by much of the public in Wales, as we can see that trade union membership levels increased in Wales by 33,000 between 2020 and 2021; the only nation in the UK to see an increase. And when we talk about social partnership, it's not just about talking the talk, it's about walking the walk. Social partnership working goes beyond legislation; it's about a value-based approach of working together for the common interest and shared purpose, and it has a huge potential to drive change not just for individuals but collectively for our communities.

I want to thank Jack Sargeant for bringing this very important question here today. Few people in this Chamber know I was actually a member of Unison once upon a time, so I actually do care about the interests of our public sector workers across Wales.

This Senedd passed the Trade Union (Wales) Act in 2017 under conferred powers, and since the 2017 Wales Act, the devolved competency was reserved back to the UK Government. I respect devolution and the laws that are passed in this Senedd, even if I don’t sometimes fundamentally agree with them.

Minister, there are dispute resolution process frameworks in place to try and work out disputes between Governments, so I’d like to know whether this is something that will be put into the dispute resolution process to try and work through to find a solution to this programme. Because I think we need to find a way through this impasse to make sure that devolution and constitutional settlements right across the United Kingdom are respected, because we are elected here in our own right to make laws for the people of Wales.

Can I genuinely thank the Member for his thoughtful and considered contribution there? I want to start off by saying, James, I'm sure you'd be very welcome to rejoin Unison, but I think there was a ripple—[Interruption.]—there was a ripple of shock waves from the benches next to you with your revelation of being a former trade union member. But trade unions are for everybody, and as we said, it's the best way to represent and protect yourself within the workplace and work together.

I know there's a series of questions on the same issue that you raised for my colleague the Counsel General coming up after this, and I'm sure the points that you take on board are ones that are very prescient, and I'm sure the Counsel General will be very happy to pick that up and take it forward, and I thank you for your contribution.