I've made the point many times how important access to the law is, because it fundamentally is about the rights of individuals and communities; it's about the empowerment of those two as well. Of course, I have always, I think, praised those elements of the legal profession—within the bar, within solicitors, and those who are paralegals working in Citizens Advice—who actually work in that area that is doing the best to give support to people in communities.

These are not the fat-cat lawyers that you read about in the papers; they're not the starting salaries for some solicitors in London City corporate firms of £120,000 a year. These are people who are making an absolutely valid contribution to our communities; it is the sector we want to expand and to increase throughout Wales. If people don't have access to justice, then you don't have real justice and you don't have real democracy, so I agree with all of the points you've made.