1. Will the Minister make a statement on the number of looked after children and young people who are placed in unregulated and temporary accommodation? TQ651

Our legislation requires the use of accommodation that meets the needs of care-experienced young people in accordance with their pathway plan. It does not provide for unregulated settings, however there can be occasions where these are used as an emergency resort, and providers must be approved to required standards.

Diolch, Gweinidog. Last night we heard about shocking, disturbing and sad interviews with children and young people in care, who endured exploitation, abuse, violence and threats in bed and breakfasts and hostels where they were placed. This is six years after the Welsh Government had promised to eliminate the use of all unregulated accommodation for children and young people in our care. Only through freedom of information requests to all councils do we now know that over 300 children, some of whom are as young as 11 years old, were placed in bed and breakfasts, hostels or other unsafe accommodation during the last financial year.

In response to my calls for an independent review, the First Minister invited Members to outline gaps between reviews undertaken, and I just want to outline those gaps, because we know that reviews have been undertaken in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but none in Wales. My office took up that challenge and identified more than 20 subject areas within children's services that have been reviewed in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but not in Wales. And in fact, looking at just two of those reports, with in fact the widest remits, those by the Public Accounts Committee and Care Inspectorate Wales, we heard that only 30 care-experienced young people and just six local authorities had been interviewed and contacted. Compare that to England, where 1,100 responses were evaluated, and Scotland, where over 5,500 experiences were heard.

And last week I'm sure all our hearts sank when we heard about the sentencing following the brutal murder of Logan Mwangi, and the detail that came out of that as well. I want to make it clear that I am not blaming anybody in respect of that event, and I know nobody here would. This is not about the local authority who were responsible for the care and protection of Logan, but surely you would agree that we in the Senedd need to know that those children are being protected. We need to hear the voices of those people who are working in child protection and childcare, and to hear what they need. We are responsible for those children and young people, and in my view it is essential that we have a review to tell us what the issues are, what support is needed and how we can make sure that not just our social workers, but those working in every single role in child protection and childcare have the resources we need.

So, Minister, I do finish by saying: what else needs to happen for Wales to be the same as every other nation and have this independent review that will help us all to make sure we have in place the steps, the resources and the support that is needed to protect our children and young people? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much, Jane Dodds, for that question. I know how great a concern you have about these issues, and of course it is so distressing to hear about Logan and to hear about the care-experienced young people who were featured last night on the documentary.

In terms of an independent inquiry with regard to Logan, I'm sure the Member is aware that there will be a child practice review taking place now the sentencing has been done, and it will be reporting in the autumn. I think it's absolutely crucial that we look at what that child practice review says. We want to learn lessons from how this happened and we want to see if there are any wider lessons that we need to look at. So, that child practice review will be taking place, and since these tragic circumstances, Care Inspectorate Wales has undertaken an inspection of Bridgend social services, and we're also waiting for that result. So, I'm sure she is aware that these are happening, and we will look at those very carefully when they're actually published, which should be before the end of this year.

With regard to the other comments, I think it is absolutely right that we listen to children, and in Wales I think we've got a really good record of listening to children. We fund Voices from Care, who come to us and tell us very freely what all their views are. We've got care-experienced children on the oversight board of our transformation programme for children's services. We include care-experienced children in the discussions about the minimum income guarantee that we are going to bring forward. We've got care-experienced children on that board—the universal income. And I'm sure that she will acknowledge that, basically, by providing that, Wales is going far ahead of any other country in the world in terms of providing financial assistance to care-experienced children. So, I hope she will acknowledge that. So, we do listen to children. And in September we're holding a summit, which is a summit for care-experienced children, where we will listen to what care-experienced children say.

In terms of accommodation, of the care-experienced children who left care between 1 April 2020 and 31 March 2021, 628 children, that's 95 per cent, were deemed to be in suitable accommodation at the date they ceased to be looked after, but there were 5 per cent who were not. And I think, obviously, the stories, the tales we heard last night were some of those 5 per cent, and obviously that's 5 per cent too many, and we are working hard to see that their situation is improved. 

The Welsh Conservatives called for a general review of children's services across Wales, and my colleague only yesterday—Andrew R.T. Davies—mentioned it in First Minister's questions. I raised it in the business statement. Jane Dodds has mentioned it in a topical question today, Deputy Minister. And as Jane Dodds alluded to, there is a review happening in England, Scotland and in Northern Ireland, but the First Minister said that one is not needed in Wales. But we have the worst rate of looked-after children in the UK. You've just said the contrary, saying we have a good rate, but the statistics actually say we have the worst rate of the UK nations. So, why is Wales the exception to this much-needed review when it's the exception for the rate of looked-after children? And the sad case of Logan Mwangi in Bridgend should trigger a national perspective to have a review across all children's services across the 22 local authorities. So, will you commit your Government to looking at this again, and hopefully seeing a review of children's services across Wales, so we can cover ourselves and not have cases such as Logan Mwangi happen again in Wales? Thank you.

Thank you, Gareth Davies, for that question. I'd just like to correct him, I didn't say we had a good rate of children in care. I think he must have misheard that. I said we had a good rate of listening to children. We've got a good record of listening to children. And in fact, the Welsh Government has been working very hard over the last three years to try to bring down the number of children who are in care, because we absolutely recognise that we've got too many children in care in Wales. And as the First Minister answered to Andrew R.T. Davies in First Minister's questions yesterday, one of the ways we want to tackle these issues is by reducing the number of children who are in care, because we feel that, by giving more help for children who are on the edge of care, helping the children and their families, we can keep a lot of children out of care, and that, I think, is one of our main aims—to keep children out of care. And we've had this reduction strategy over the last three years, and during the last year, the rate has now started to drop, so we are on the right trajectory, but we have got a long way to go. So, I certainly don't think that we've got a good record on the number of children in care.

In terms of the review, as I said in response to Jane Dodds, there is a child practice review that will be happening now, and that will be reporting in the autumn. We will have to see what is the result of that child practice review, whether there are any wider issues that need to be taken up across Wales, and also we're waiting for the CIW report of services in Bridgend. So, we're waiting to see what those two results are. We do have a plan for transformation of children's services. We have committed money to it. We are working at it and we think it's really important that we go ahead and take action on those, and we're certainly going to look very carefully at the result of these reviews.

Thank you to Jane Dodds for tabling this very important question. Like you, I was very moved and disturbed by the documentary. I think Niall's comments really stuck with me saying, 'Prison would have been better for me.' Prison better than somewhere that they were supposed to be safe. I would also like to echo the calls for an independent review of children's social work. I think this is essential. We are an outlier, and these are experts telling us—it's not politicians pushing for this; these are experts working in the field. And may I take from your response to Gareth Davies, therefore, that you are not ruling out the need now, that you are awaiting both and are therefore still open to an independent review should you not be content with both reports that you've referenced? I think that that would be a welcome step today.

And if I may as well, we know that looked-after children are especially vulnerable and outcomes are too often much poorer than we would wish, and research for End Youth Homelessness Cymru's report, 'Don't Let Me Fall Through the Cracks', shows us the links between care experience and youth homelessness—so, really, echoing those calls that we saw from those young people yesterday. Evidence shows that we need to be able to target specialist services at the young people most at risk of experiencing youth homelessness, and this is part of the prevention agenda that you've also referenced—how important it is that we support people so that they don't end up in the care system. But we can't deny that there are young people who are facing risks today—as you said, those 5 per cent; that is a significant amount of young people who are falling through the cracks. Therefore, to what extent is Welsh Government monitoring the outcomes for young people in care, as, clearly, there are far too many in the system without that safety net at present?

I thank Heledd Fychan for that question. In terms of a review, I think our position has been laid out by the First Minister, as he did in First Minister's questions. But, as I've said, we're looking at the result of the practice review later on this year and at what Care Inspectorate Wales says about the social services, and we will see if there are any wider lessons that we need to learn from that. We have had a lot of reviews in Wales. We really feel that we should be continuing with the action that we've started to improve the lives of young people who are care-experienced and to make sure that we give them the best chance that we possibly can. I think it is important to mention the 95 per cent who are deemed to have good accommodation that is safe, secure and affordable, because lots of young people who leave care do achieve and do have happy, fulfilled lives, so I wouldn't want anyone to think that the tragic stories that we've heard are typical, but they're so important, and they are that 5 per cent that she mentions that we've got to do all we possibly can to help. And to re-echo, that's why we want to reduce the number of children in care, so that children who really absolutely have to come into care, we're able to put all our resources in to try to stop there being—you know, to try to give them the best lives that we possibly can.

In terms of youth homelessness, that's obviously something that we're very concerned about and we do put considerable resources into youth homelessness. We put £3.7 million through the youth support grant, and we have homelessness officers working in youth teams in order to identify young people who may be at risk. And we've also put £3.1 million in the youth homelessness innovation fund, and, with that fund, we're trying out different ways of providing accommodation for young people. We've also, this year, put in £60 million for housing and care, which is to provide accommodation where young people who are in need of support are able to live independently but with support. So, that £60 million is going to be spent this year in providing that sort of accommodation. And generally, I think it's just this year that we've got £197 million in homelessness and housing support. So, I think we've certainly put the money in there and we're certainly seeing some innovative responses coming from that, but I absolutely accept the points that Heledd makes and I think that we've just got to do all that we possibly can to help that 5 per cent. 

I thank the Deputy Minister. The second question will be answered by the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, and I call on Samuel Kurtz.