Well, Llywydd, it doesn't just go in one direction, as I explained in my original answer, and the plan is already there and published. It's published by the health Minister, showing milestones over the period ahead as to how we will reduce those waiting times, and our map matches the ambitions that have been set for England as well.

The NHS in all parts of the United Kingdom has had a torrid time and goes on having a torrid time everywhere. I'm not going to trade figures with him. More than twice the population of Wales is now on a waiting list in England. I remember, when I was the health Minister, answering questions here on the day when, for the first time, the number of people on a waiting list in England went above the population of Wales. Now, it's more than twice that level. That's not a criticism of the English NHS, because it faces exactly the same sorts of struggles and difficulties as we face here. The numbers of long waits are coming down in Wales, as they are in England. We want them to come down faster, of course we do.

Let me tell you this, though, Llywydd: what will never bring waiting lists down in England or in Wales are some of the fantasy ideas that we see your party's politicians parading in London. How will it bring waiting times down in the NHS anywhere in the United Kingdom if your current Chancellor of the Exchequer has his way and reduces the budget of the health department by 20 per cent, because that's what he said he intends to do if he is elected? A 20 per cent reduction in the number of doctors, a 20 per cent reduction in the number of nurses, a 20 per cent reduction in the number of social workers, a 20 per cent reduction in the number of teachers—where will that lead services in Wales or in any other part of the United Kingdom? And yet, that seems to be the only debate that your party has to offer when it comes to selecting the latest in a long line of defenestrated Prime Ministers that your party has offered us in the last six years.