11. The Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Wales) Order 2022

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:32 pm on 12 July 2022.

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Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 5:32, 12 July 2022

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I start by thanking the legislation and justice committee for their input into this set of regulations? Just to answer a couple of the questions that were raised by Huw in his role as Chair, we were anxious to avoid any unnecessary challenge to the regulations, so the vires point has quite a lot of weight with us. And then in terms of the impact on enforcement and the criminal justice system, enforcement will be undertaken by GoSafe, the police, Community Speedwatch and enforcement cameras. The fire and rescue services will be involved, or have been involved, in developing an education programme, so those breaking the speed limit but not excessively can be offered a course if they don't want to take a fine, so very similar to now. Obviously, motorists who have a total disregard for the speed limit will be fined in the usual way and will end up in court, but we don't think there is therefore a huge impact on the criminal justice system, and we think it will diminish over time in any event. So, just to answer those points.

Turning to the contributions, in particular, from Natasha Asghar and people on the Tory benches, I mean, what can I say? Same old Tories. You agree with it in principle, but this particular thing you don't want to do. You agree with climate change in principle, but this particular thing you don't want to do. You agree with health in principle, but this particular thing you don't want to do. You never want to do anything specific. You want to agree it in principle, but never actually take any action at all, and it's just not good enough.

You talk to me about the waste of resources. Where were you when the Westminster Government took millions of pounds off this Government to buy arms for Ukraine? A worthy cause, but a wholly reserved matter. I don't remember a chorus of complaints from the Tory benches about the use of resources then. One of your own Members told me, in this Chamber, that it wasn't his job to worry about resources—a hilarious contribution to that debate. I'll take no lessons from you about the use of resources; you have no idea what you're talking about. That is an absolute nonsense, and you know it.

Darren Millar, I am very distressed at you. You have been a proponent of this all your life. Sam Rowlands had the temerity to say that my backbenchers are following a strict whip. I have to tell you they are not. They are wholly in favour of this. You, Darren Millar, I'm not so sure about you. We'll maybe have to have a conversation about that afterwards. But the idea that this is a strict whip is just not on. I'm not having it. That is just absolute nonsense.

So, I'll just reiterate the points that I was making earlier. On average, 80 people a year—80 people a year—die on Welsh roads; 80 families whose lives will never be the same again. Eighty. Moving to a national 20 mph speed limit for residential roads makes them safer. It saves lives; it stops the ruination of those families' lives and I have to say, not just the families of those people are killed, but the drivers themselves, whose lives are often ruined as well. So, this will save lives, it will make our communities safer, it will encourage more of us to walk and cycle and reclaim the streets for our children.

We're under no illusions that this is a huge behaviour change, and I am old enough to remember the change to seat belts, as it happens. I remember the clamour of indignation about the stopping of liberties and how appalling it was that you had to do that; you couldn't put eight kids in the back seat and all the rest of it. None of us would dream of doing that now; we all clip our seat belts on because we know it saves our lives and it saves the lives of other people who are road users. This will be just the same; it is a generational change. It looks difficult now. By the time my granddaughter who's rising two is my age, it will be so normal that nobody will ever think about it.

And this isn't a blanket change. The difference between a blanket change and a default is really, really important, and I know that you know that. You're just using that as a platform. So, it's the default. There is a system of exceptions that we will work on with our local authorities to make sure that they have the resource and the evidence to make the exceptions count, and that the local authority takes into account the views of its councillors and its local residents, but it has an evidence base for that, which will allow us to have the right speed limit for the right road with a default of 20 mph. So, the assumption of 20 mph and then a default. Yes, Darren.