Plas Menai National Outdoor Centre

Part of 5. Topical Questions – in the Senedd at 3:20 pm on 21 September 2022.

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Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 3:20, 21 September 2022

Well, first of all, thank you for that question, Mike. First of all, I don't think that the private sector can do things better than the public sector. What we are faced with and what we were dealing with was an organisation that has tried several different options to deliver success for Plas Menai, including bringing in their own managers, bringing in marketing staff, and bringing in other ways of working that have not delivered those changes. What they have not been able to do is to bring in the kind of expertise in the development of the facility within the cost envelope that they have. You're absolutely right that what Parkwood Leisure will do as part of the contract is that they will be paid a management fee for running the management of that service. So, the service is not being outsourced, but the management of it is. The service remains part of Sport Wales, and I can't reiterate that enough; it remains part of Sport Wales. It remains a public sector body and a public sector provision. But the profit that will come to the organisation would be through their management fee, which, incidentally, will be considerably less than the current running costs of Plas Menai—some 32 per cent less than the running costs of Plas Menai.

Now, if Parkwood are unable to make money on that basis, that is their problem. That is what they have contracted for. That is what they have said that they can run the management of that organisation on, and that they can develop that organisation based on that level of management fee. Also written into the contract, and I think it is an important point that you make, Mike—. I spent many years, as you well know, as a trade union official, and I know only too well what happens with Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations contracts and that TUPE contracts are only as valuable as the paper they're written on on day 1. However, the difference here is that this is not a normal TUPE contract whereby the new employer takes over on day 1 and can then issue notice to change the terms and conditions. The terms and conditions of employees in Plas Menai are guaranteed for the lifetime of the contract. Any changes to staffing that might be required in Plas Menai will not be the decision of Parkwood Leisure, they will be the decision of Sport Wales. So, it is quite clear that this is a very different type of arrangement. This is a commissioned partnership arrangement whereby nothing happens in that organisation without the agreement of Sport Wales as the partner, with the commissioned partner, Parkwood Leisure.