4. What progress is the Welsh Government making towards meeting its target for building new homes in South Wales West? OQ58500

We have committed to deliver 20,000 new low-carbon homes for rent in the social sector, providing record levels of funding to do so. The first statistical release demonstrating progress towards this target is expected later this year.

I thank the First Minister for his answer. I'm sure you agree with me, First Minister, that it's really important that people, particularly younger people, can get on the housing ladder and afford to buy their own home. One symptom of increased house prices that can make it unaffordable is the lack of supply in the market in the first place. Swansea Council, in 2019-20, promised to build 1,360 homes; they built 397. In 2020-21, they promised to build 1,654; they built 446. I heard from his answer to Adam Price earlier that he likes to blame others for the problems in the housing market. Well, the thing he does control is the number of houses being built, and when you're only building a quarter of the number that you've promised, there is no wonder that house prices are expensive in Wales. So, how is the Welsh Government encouraging councils like Swansea Council to get a move on and build the houses they promised they would?

First of all, house prices in Wales are less expensive than in most other parts of the United Kingdom, not more expensive as Mr Giffard appeared to believe. There are a series of reasons why there are new obstacles in the path of building the number of houses that we need to see here in Wales, both houses for social renting and houses that are built for commercial sale. Brexit means—[Interruption.] Yes, I know. It's such a sigh, isn't it, because every time you tell these people the truth, they want to roll their eyes around their head as though the truth means nothing to them at all. It is a simple truth that, for the people we rely upon in construction, the tap on those people coming into the United Kingdom was turned off by Brexit. That's why your Government—your Government, another u-turn—[Interruption.] I know. Listen carefully; I know it's hard to keep up with them. Another u-turn on behalf of your Government is to reverse what they've said on controlling immigration into this country. Why are they having to do that? Because the decisions that flowed from the Brexit decision mean that we have a labour shortage in the construction industry.

We have supply-side constraints in the construction industry. Eighty per cent of timber that is used in constructing Welsh homes comes from Europe. As a result of your policies, there are new barriers in getting those things, and there are supply-chain problems that builders face. And they are about to face the biggest blow of all. House builders borrow money in order to construct their homes. They're now going to be spending 6 per cent to borrow that money, where, a year ago, they were able to borrow it for 1 per cent. I agree with what Mr Giffard said at the beginning: we need a greater supply of homes here in Wales. Why then would people think kindly of a Government that erects barrier after barrier after barrier to achieving that end? 

Swansea Council was never going to build 1,600 houses of its own. That would be more than they've built in the last 30 years. What they were relying upon is the private sector to build, and the private sector only builds when it can make a profit. The problem we have at the moment is, with interest rates going up, the private sector cannot make profits on these houses, therefore they've scaled back the number of houses they're building. Does the First Minister agree that what we need is lower interest rates, and that we need an economic position on which we can have people able to afford to buy houses? Andrew Davies was right: do away with planning and let people build, and you will have houses built. The Vale of Glamorgan will be full of houses from Cowbridge down. The Vale of Clwyd will be full of houses in the more affluent areas. Gower will be full of houses. I don't think anybody on our benches would want to see that.

First of all, I agree with the points about economic stability that Mike Hedges made. That's the way in which the long-term investment you'll need if you're building houses can be secured. But he makes a very important final point. In my own constituency of Cardiff West, a town the size of Carmarthen is being built in the north-west of Cardiff. That was opposed every single step of the way by Conservative members of Cardiff Council. I don't remember speeches from them telling us to tear up the planning rules so that those houses could be built ever faster. But, this afternoon, we appear to have some offers on the table. We appear to have an offer from the Member for Aberconwy that she'd be happy for planning rules to be torn up in her constituency so that housing can be built in all sorts of places—I look forward to hearing her defend that—and, as Mike Hedges said, a voice from the Vale of Glamorgan looking forward to an explosion of house building without any planning constraints there too.