6. Statement by the Minister for Climate Change: Biodiversity

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:06 pm on 4 October 2022.

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Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 5:06, 4 October 2022

Yes, thank you, Delyth. I couldn't agree more; we all, obviously, need to play our part. Declaring the emergency is one thing; actually taking the very, very difficult actions that are required to make it happen is quite another. I'm afraid I have to say all the time to the Conservatives opposite that it's all very well to say that you have signed up to these things, but then to oppose every single measure that moves us along that path is a very difficult thing. These are not easy things to do or we would have done them. People would have just done them automatically if they were easy. They are hard. They are changing the way that we all live our lives—that's the truth of it. And we have to do that or we will have no planet left. And these are not easy things to do. Every single sector of our society is going to have to look hard at what it's currently doing, and think very hard about what will be needed from that sector of society or that individual or that business to contribute to this, or we will not get there. I can't emphasise that enough. We need that from every single area of our community. We need to work with our communities on behaviour changes, on making the right thing—you hear me say this all the time—easier to do, making the wrong thing harder and harder and harder to do. And, obviously, we need to move people along that continuum. They're not going to go from really dreadful to absolutely excellent in one jump. You've got to get people there, but we've got to get them moving along that continuum. And the kind of dig-your-heels-in and,'Not-me; everybody else but not me', we've just got to get away from that. And the deep-dive people were vehement about that right across the piece, so we've got to do that. 

We absolutely have to get these targets into legislation. I can't agree with you what they'll be because that's what I've asked the experts to do. So, I want to see what happens in COP and I want to see what the global ones look like. I've said this to you endlessly, haven't I? I want to have the targets in place too; I'm frustrated by it. But I don't want to set targets that are easy-peasy or have no relationship to the global work that's been going on. I've had these deep-dive experts—they've been amazing to sit beside; it's a very humbling experience—but they don't agree amongst themselves always about what they should look like. So, we need to get a consensus view about what these targets look like, to make sure they're achievable, because targets that are just set and then gone just increase cynicism and, 'Oh, what's the point?' They have to be achievable, but they have to be stretching, don't they? They have to be just achievable. So, it's important to get that right, and I'm determined to do it. And I want my feet held to that fire. We want reporting—I have to come here and I have to tell you what I've done about it, and all the rest of it. I want those things. But the targets are essential to get right. So, we will do a lot of work now in the run-up to COP, and then in the immediate aftermath of COP, to get those targets agreed across the whole sectors, and then to get them implemented. But, make no mistake, that's all very well, but those targets will mean that we all have to do things differently and in circumstances where that might be very hard. There might be difficult decisions. So, this is not an easy path to take, but we have to do it or we will have no planet left. I couldn't agree more. 

Then, in terms of the UK Government plan, I despair really. So, we have a coach and horses being driven through a planning system. You saw the RSPB's response to that—that they mapped out the protected areas against the so-called investment zones. It's a disaster—an absolute disaster. Of course we will fight them. Of course we will try and keep our EU standards as much as we can. It's not a matter for me; you'd need to ask the Counsel General about the involvement of that. But my big fear is that in diverting resources to fight that battle, we lose even more ground in doing the things we want to do. I just think the Tories are in complete denial about the effect on our limited resources of having to fight a ridiculous and completely unnecessary onslaught on something that they say themselves they want to do. So, I just don't know where to put myself over how cross I am about all of that, but I can assure you we will fight it, we will keep hold of our plan-led system that we have worked so hard on and which is very important to people, and you heard in First Minister's questions only this afternoon that people want a bonfire of planning laws but not in their own area, which is a pretty classic reaction.