6. Will the Counsel General provide an update on the Welsh Government’s efforts to reduce racial discrimination within the justice system? OQ58495

Thank you very much for your question. We have worked with the criminal justice board for Wales partners to develop the criminal justice anti-racist plan for Wales, which was published in September. This document sets out seven commitments to realise an anti-racist criminal justice system, complementing our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'.

Thank you for that, Minister. Recent data from the Wales Governance Centre paints an extremely worrying picture of racism within the justice system. As this information was not publicly available, they gathered it through freedom of information requests. They found that black and mixed race people are more than four times more likely to be arrested than white people, which is twice as likely as the corresponding figure in England. I’m aware, as you’ve said, that the Government is in the process of developing its 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', and the Government, I know, is committed to tackling systemic racism. I’d like to ask you: do you believe there is a need to collect and publish data on this subject in a systematic way in order to ensure that we understand the scale of the problem? Also, what steps can the Government take to reduce the problem? Finally, do you believe that it would be easier to deal with the problem if the justice system and policing were devolved?

Thank you for the question. You raise a number of issues that I know are under very serious consideration and, I know, the Minister for Social Justice has been looking at and addressing and working on for a long period of time. The first thing you raised was in terms of data. Well, of course data has been something that has been a massive concern to us—the disaggregation of data, being able to obtain data within Wales with regard to the criminal justice system, to enable us to assess the sort of policy that's needed. You need that database, and so on. Now, that is recognised by many within the justice system, and, of course, I accept that it is not necessarily that easy to suddenly start converting systems to do it. It has started, and there is, of course, a dashboard of information that the Minister for Social Justice has been very engaged in and responsible for delivering, which is giving us much better information.

But the very examples that the Member raised are precisely the reasons why the criminal justice anti-racist plan for Wales was developed, and which the Minister for Social Justice published on 8 September, because this strengthens our commitment—the commitment from devolved and from non-devolved partners to tackle racism in all its forms. I know the Minister for Social Justice will be continuing that particular work. I’m also reassured that an independent oversight and advisory panel has been established and will feed in individual lived experience and provide advice. I think the crux of it now that we actually have the plan is the evaluation of that plan, how it works, what it actually delivers, and the question that’s been asked today is one that I hope will be a question that continues to reappear as we begin to assess the challenges that are faced within not just the criminal justice system, but the justice system overall in terms of the representation and the balance and presentation of the justice system, all of which are things about the diversity of our justice system overall.

In terms of the devolution of justice, well, it’s precisely because of reasons like that, all those devolved responsibilities, that our case has been put together in ‘Delivering Justice for Wales’. The devolution of justice is actually such an important and natural step, because it integrates the delivery of justice with all those devolved social policies and areas that actually can make the delivery of justice better and more effective. Ultimately, that is what it is about.