Debate on the General Principles of the Environmental Protection (Single-use Plastic Products) (Wales) Bill and Motion to agree the financial resolution in respect of the Environmental Protection (Single-use Plastic Products) (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:40 pm on 11 October 2022.

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Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 5:40, 11 October 2022

I just wanted to, very specifically, cover off the point from the Chair of the legislation and justice committee on the case study that they included, however. Very respectfully, Huw, I'm very sorry to say that we just don't agree that the legislation and justice committee's case study is an accurate representation of the position. Our position is very much that the provisions of the Bill are within competence, are fully effective and enforceable. So, that includes the provisions that make it an offence to supply a prohibited single-use, oxo-biodegradable plastic product to a consumer in Wales, and it includes the supply of those items from outside Wales, including from other UK nations. So, the Counsel General, sitting beside me today, has repeatedly set out that our position is that UKIMA, as we call it, cannot and does not operate to reserved matters that are clearly within the Senedd's competence. The Bill makes provision in relation to non-reserved matters and in relation to Wales. Both the Counsel General and the Llywydd have said that its provisions are within competence, and so we consider they are fully effective and enforceable, and the market access principles in UKIMA simply do not apply to them. So, I just wanted to make that really plain today.

I will just make a couple of other points. I very much welcome all of the Members' contributions about going further and faster on various products. As I said in the committee, we had 60-odd suggestions in our response. That is a published response; you can look it up on the website. You can see the number of items that people suggested. Everybody has mentioned them again here today. There are others. For example, I've been discussing with the health Minister a number of products in the health service that we definitely need to look at in more detail.

And just on the wet wipes issue, we have, of course, worked with the manufacturer in Flint and elsewhere—three plants in Wales, actually—but as I said in the committee, and I just remind Janet, one of the big issues for us is that you don't currently have to label the product to say that it has plastic in it. So, obviously, it's much more difficult to enforce if you aren't able to say, accurately, what's in it. So, I'm very much hoping that the UK will change the labelling regime, so that if you have a product that looks like it should be compostable or biodegradable, but in fact has plastic in it, that that should be very clearly stated on the label. We have an issue with wet wipes, for sure, but we also have an issue with some tea bags having plastic in them, and so on. So, products that contain a plastic, which makes them no longer biodegradable or no longer compostable, need to be clearly labelled, because otherwise what are we to do with them? I can’t emphasise that enough, and I’ll bring that up in every inter-ministerial group I'm in, and I hope, Janet, you'll be able to do that with the Government there in Westminster. I'm sure the committees will do it as well.

But, in the meantime, we will work with our manufacturers here in Wales very carefully to make sure that they themselves remove the plastic from their products. Even if we don't ban them, we want them removed from the products. So, I just wanted to make that position very plain. I would very much have liked to have included wet wipes, but it's turned out to be impossible at the point of enforcement to do that. The Bill though, I'm very pleased to say, of course, does allow us to add in products as we do the research and as we work with our businesses. So, I'm very much looking forward to being able to do that. It deliberately puts a duty on Ministers, assuming that the Senedd eventually passes it in this form, so that we have to report back to the Senedd whether we are or are not including extra products. So, I think that extra holding of the feet to the fire—‘Why aren’t you going further?'—is something that the Senedd really should, I hope, endorse, as we take the Bill through its various stages.

The Bill fits into our comprehensive, wider strategies aimed at protecting and enhancing our environment. So, just in answer to Jane and I think a few of the others, obviously, this is part of a suite of measures, so we are taking forward the introduction of a deposit-return scheme, as it happens. There's also a new, extended producer responsibility scheme coming. So, we'll pick up the manufacturing point in the wider suite of measures. So, just because it's not in this Bill doesn't mean we’re not doing it, and the Senedd will have a chance to have a look at that, so I very much take the point. We are very clear on our global responsibilities, so I think it's very important that we do those things. So, just to remind Members that, just because it's not in here, it doesn't mean it's not coming or it's not included in the suite of measures.

It contributes to our programme for government, of course, on tackling the climate emergency. I'm very pleased, and I'll reiterate from the beginning, that I'm able to accept nearly all of the recommendations from the committees, and I'm very grateful for the amount of work you've done in very short order. In particular, as I said in my opening remarks, we will bring amendments forward to put the guidance as a duty, so we'll be able to address that, and we certainly will be addressing the Finance Committee's recommendations, which we're accepting all of—not a single one of those has been rejected.

But, Llywydd, in the end, I really do think that we are doing something pretty unique here. We are behind the other UK nations, but this goes further. Sometimes you can leapfrog, and I hope that the Senedd will take the opportunity to leapfrog today. This is something that we seem to have a collective will to do. It's something I think we must deliver. We have to take action to protect our current and future generations from the impact of this plastic. I very much hope that Members will approve both motions today. I look forward to further debate during Stage 2 scrutiny, and ask that Members today approve the motion and agree the general principles and financial resolution of the Environmental Protection (Single-use Plastic Products) (Wales) Bill. Diolch.