3. How successful has the Welsh Government been at getting people out of their cars and onto public transport? OQ58553

Passenger numbers using public transport have not returned to pre-COVID levels, but we continue to work with partners to seek ways to get people out of their cars and using more sustainable modes.

Thank you, Minister. Minister, I have been campaigning for the restoration of bus services in parts of Bridgend and Pen-y-fai following the decision of the Easyway bus company to cease trading. People living in Pen-y-fai and the other affected areas who are without cars have no means of going shopping, visiting the hospital or accessing many other services unless they pay for a taxi, and there is also a complete lack of active travel routes. I'm also concerned about the loss of a service running past Glanrhyd Hospital. The affected routes were commercially viable, and Bridgend council shows little interest in addressing the problem. How can people be confident that public transport is an attractive offer when we are losing much-needed bus routes, and will the Minister intervene?

As we discussed earlier, we are introducing legislation to put into place a better, more coherent bus system. The challenges are multiple. As he pointed out, many people are reliant on the bus service. We know a quarter of all households don't own a car. Transport for Wales's research of its own passengers suggests that something like 80 per cent of people who travel on the bus don't have a car. So, we have a real sense of transport injustice here, social injustice, as reflected in the way people use modes of transport. There's a particular need to make sure there are good-quality bus services for young people and for people on lower incomes especially, but we want the bus to be something for everyone, not just for those who don't have a choice. We want it to be good enough that it's better to go by bus than it is by car. To do that needs a series of systemic reforms, and we've started that process.

I should point out to the Member that local authorities like Bridgend used to subsidise routes, but 10 years of austerity have meant that the discretionary funding that they had is no longer there. Now, I know that the Conservative benches don't like to be reminded of the financial facts, but when there are right-wing experiments being carried out in Westminster, they have consequences on real people's lives. And when there isn't money available in the budget, discretionary services—non-statutory services like bus routes—get cut. So, there is a consequence between the policies that you put forward, and then you complain when those consequences are played out in real life. I'm afraid that that is simply hypocrisy.

We are trying to address the systemic problems, but without the funding, we can't do it. We know, as the First Minister said yesterday, that the biggest cut that we have had to the Welsh Government's budget in over 20 years of devolution was by Chancellor George Osborne, when he cut our budget by 3 per cent, after a decade of growing budgets under Labour. Since then, we have had a decade of cutting budgets from austerity. And according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, because the Prime Minister and the Chancellor—whom many of the Members here voted for—have blown up our economy, we now face spending cuts of not 3 per cent, but 15 per cent. Under those sort of cuts, our ability to provide bus services for those who need them will simply not be there. So, you have to look at your own conscience, rather than standing here, telling me that I should intervene. You should intervene to reverse these idiotic policies in Westminster.

One of the most effective ways of getting people out of their cars is to persuade people to walk or cycle short journeys, as I know, Minister, you agree. Obviously, the quickest wins are going to be eliminating car use for travelling to work and travelling to school. This isn't just about creating a better cycling infrastructure on our roads. We also need loan schemes for families who can't afford to buy a bike for their child, and who are struggling to pay £3 a day on school transport.

One of the secondary schools serving my constituency is offering to incorporate safe cycling routes into their transition arrangements for 11-year-olds, but unfortunately, the local authority, at the moment, isn't able to provide us with a map of the safe cycling routes, for the areas from which their putative pupils are going to be coming. So, I just wondered what work you are doing with local authorities to ensure that we are not just seeing this as a roads problem, but that it's also a cultural problem—and working with both our schools and our employers on this.

Well, I couldn't agree more. We are living with the legacy of a culture where cars were put before people, and we had a whole highway network designed around making cars go faster, rather than thinking about how we encourage people to walk or cycle. As Jenny Rathbone knows, some 10 per cent of all journeys are under one mile. Now, these are journeys that could be walked or cycled in many cases but are, by habit, driven in most cases. So, we do have a cultural challenge, and then we have an infrastructure challenge, because people are reluctant when they don't feel safe or it's a novel experience for them to get out of their cars.

Cardiff Council has been doing some excellent work—probably one of the most progressive councils in Wales—on its active travel development. It has, as you know, a legal obligation under the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 to produce a map every three years, based on consultation with communities, of where future infrastructure should go. Cardiff Council has submitted its latest map to us, and it shows that a thorough approach has been taken to ensure that all schools are connected to the planned active travel network. Now, that network is going to take time to be put in place. In the meantime, Cardiff Council, partly through its own resources, is working with individual schools, with officer intervention, to try and do softer schemes, beyond the hard infrastructure, to encourage behaviour change. So, I think that there is really good work going on in Cardiff.

There is some work that they have also been doing around Safer Streets, and we've been piloting this with Sustrans in Newport. There is funding available now, as part of the Safe Routes in Communities project, to close streets outside of schools at pick-up and drop-off times. Where that's been tried, it has been hugely successful. That is there for all local authorities in Wales to take part in. Unfortunately, very few have come forward with bids, but it's open for them annually to do that. I am meeting council transport members in the next couple of weeks to constantly push this agenda. It's partly an issue of officer resource and capability, partly an issue of culture and willingness. But as part of our modal shift agenda, this is critical.