7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change: Closure of the Menai Bridge

– in the Senedd at 5:10 pm on 25 October 2022.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:10, 25 October 2022

(Translated)

The next item is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change on the closure of the Menai Bridge, and I call on the Deputy Minister to make the statement—Lee Waters. 

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to provide Members with an update on the Menai bridge. As Members will know, at 2 p.m. on Friday 21 October, the Welsh Government made the decision to close the Menai bridge to all traffic with immediate effect. The decision was not made lightly; it was made on safety grounds after clear advice from structural engineers and conversations with the police.

The Menai bridge is managed by a private company, UK Highways A55 Ltd, as part of a private finance initiative so-called design-build-finance-operate contract, or DBFO, for the A55 on Ynys Môn and the Menai loop. As part of their maintenance responsibility, UK Highways have been carrying out inspections on the bridge. They do this to an industry standard at two and six-year intervals. The general inspections every two years are visual inspections where all parts of the structure are examined, typically using binoculars or aerial drone surveys. The principal inspection occurs every six years, and involves close examination of all inspectable parts of the bridge within touching distance. The in-depth survey includes visual inspections, as well as specialist techniques such as hammer tap surveys of concrete, or corrosion measurement.

As part of the last principal inspection in 2019, a concern about the resilience of hangers that support the suspension bridge were identified, and led to a weight restriction being imposed on the bridge while further studies were carried out. The latest inspection was reported to the Welsh Government last Wednesday, and it unexpectedly highlighted an immediate concern around the brittle failure mechanism of the hangers. As is standard practice, officials reviewed and challenged the findings. However, based on very clear advice from structural engineers, it was considered that there was no other option but to close the bridge while further checks on the analysis are undertaken by an independent consultant.

As I say, this was not a decision that was taken lightly, and I fully appreciate the implications that this has for local people, especially without any advanced warnings. We did initially plan a communications campaign in advance to give people warning, but on further conversations with the police and based on the advice, we decided that it was prudent to close the bridge with immediate effect. The safety of our network and the travelling public is paramount, and the decision has been based upon the safety recommendations from numerous structural engineers, amongst the best in the world. The findings that led to the recommendation to close the bridge are currently being reviewed, as is standard. The initial review will take up to two weeks. Officials, along with stakeholders, are assessing all available options to reopen the bridge as soon as possible. Temporary hanger-strengthening works may need to be installed to ensure the safety and integrity of the Menai bridge, and this programme could take between 14 and 16 weeks, with the bridge reopening to vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes, again in early 2023. 

Now, I am acutely aware of the inconvenience that this is causing. Clearly, the Menai bridge is a vital link for the people of north Wales and beyond, and I’d like to thank local people for their patience and understanding whilst this urgent work takes place. And I want to reassure them that the Welsh Government is working with UK Highways and all stakeholders, including emergency services, to ensure that this can be done as quickly and safely as possible. All vehicular traffic is now being diverted to the Britannia bridge, and Welsh Government officials are urgently working on further contingency plans in the area, and will continue to monitor the congestion to inform future changes. They are also developing further strategies to increase resilience on the Britannia bridge to mitigate the risk of both bridges being closed in exceptional circumstances.

I can confirm that, following discussions with UK Highways and their structural experts, it's been agreed that the footway across the bridge can be reopened for pedestrians and dismounted cyclists. Pedestrians must remain on the footways, and numbers will be limited, with monitoring taking place. Officials are working with UK Highways to help limit the impact on emergency services and allow their vehicles, which weigh less than 7.5 tonnes, across the Menai bridge, if the A55 Britannia bridge is closed. This will be subject to the emergency services meeting certain criteria and the traffic management, put in place by UK Highways, is safe to allow this to happen.

The effects of the closure are in their infancy. Officials are already considering the impacts and will continue to monitor the road network to see what can be done to ease congestion further. I'll be providing further updates as things progress, and I would like to invite the local Members to a technical briefing with Welsh Government officials, so they can ask detailed questions of their own to satisfy themselves of the decision making and the next steps. I'd encourage local people to visit the Welsh Government and Traffic Wales websites and social media channels to keep up to date with the latest information. Once again, I'm extremely grateful to everyone this will affect. We'll do everything within our power to reopen the bridge as soon as it is safe to do so. Diolch.

Photo of Natasha Asghar Natasha Asghar Conservative 5:16, 25 October 2022

Deputy Minister, the scenes we've been seeing play out in Anglesey over the last few days are completely unacceptable and, dare I say it, avoidable. I must say, from the moment the bridge suddenly closed late on Friday afternoon, there has been complete chaos in the area, with drivers, pedestrians and cyclists left stranded. My inbox has been inundated with messages over it, and I'm based in south-east Wales. Closing the bridge at the last minute without prior warning for what could be potentially four months will not only hit residents, visitors and commuters, but also hard-working businesses in the area. Of course, Deputy Minister, safety is paramount—I'm not going to deny it for a single second—but how on earth are we only now aware of structural weaknesses here today? A 200-year-old bridge, which is used by nearly 50,000 vehicles every day, should be regularly inspected, not every six years. If this problem had been picked up sooner, advance warning could have been given and the people of Anglesey would have been able to make alternative arrangements. Motorists are now expected to use the Britannia bridge while the Menai is closed. This is simply not going to work, Deputy Minister, especially now as we're heading into winter, when the Britannia bridge is regularly closed due to high winds. What happens if the Britannia bridge is forced to close while the Menai is closed? Some of my colleagues here, and my honourable colleague Virginia Crosbie in Westminster, have indeed been getting attacks on social media by your Labour Party over this sorry saga. The Labour Party, which clearly doesn't have true understanding of the situation, has been claiming this is a UK Government problem, because it involves a company called UK Highways A55 Limited—[Interruption.]

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:17, 25 October 2022

This is a statement, Janet Finch-Saunders. [Interruption.] How long have you been here, Janet?

Photo of Natasha Asghar Natasha Asghar Conservative

I am pleased you have laid these wrong claims to rest—[Interruption.] I am pleased that you have laid these wrong claims to rest by confirming UK Highways A55 Limited is a private company, and responsibility lies with your Government, not Westminster. However, you should have made this abundantly clear from the outset, because it's led to a lot of confusion with the public, politicians and your own party. Let me be clear from the outset: I firmly believe that this fiasco further highlights the Welsh Government's neglect of north Wales and shows there is still a major divide between the north and the south. It's vital the Menai bridge, which is a vital artery, is reopened as soon as possible, and your Government must do all it can to make sure situations like this are avoided in the future. Will you now commit that, going forward, the Menai bridge will be inspected regularly and thoroughly to nip any future problems in the bud? Because the people and businesses of Anglesey deserve better than this, Deputy Minister.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 5:18, 25 October 2022

Well, as tempting as it is, Llywydd, to engage in that contribution in the same tone as it was offered, I shall not do that. I think that was a very poorly judged intervention on what is a very serious subject.

There are regular inspections of the bridge to industry standard, far higher than to the normal highway network, which is a risk-based approach. Inspections of the bridge are not risk-based, they are regularly held, and I mentioned the process for that, and it's through that regular inspection that the initial problem was highlighted. Ongoing monitoring work has been going on since then, and it's that ongoing monitoring that has highlighted the potential for further failure, which led us to take immediate action. And as I explained, we could have waited till the end of the weekend and given advance notice that the bridge would be closing on Monday, but, on reflection, we thought that would be imprudent; had something happened, that would have been unforgivable. And given the weight of the advice we were getting from the structural engineers, it was clearly the right thing to do to act immediately, in the full knowledge this would cause distress and inconvenience, which we deeply regret, but we felt this was the responsible thing to do. And if the Member has time to reread the statement I gave, I believe it fairly answers the questions that have been raised, and I regret the way in which she has made her intervention today.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 5:20, 25 October 2022

(Translated)

Thank you for the statement. I have to tell the Minister that this is far more than an inconvenience, and I also have to say that the situation is far more serious than the way the Conservative spokesperson dealt with it. I think there are three fundamental questions. First of all, the priority: what steps are being taken to respond to this, to keep traffic flowing, to mitigate risk? Secondly, the state of the bridge: how was this allowed to happen in the first instance? How can we find the best way to reopen safely? And thirdly, what will the response be in order to ensure long-term resilience?

In terms of the response now, there are so many layers to this: ensuring that there are no barriers to emergency vehicles; how to get key workers to work—Ysbyty Gwynedd staff particularly, but far more than that—how to get people out of their cars—more trains stopping in more stations, more buses, encouraging more use of park and rides, shuttle buses and so on. Will the walkway be open throughout this period? That's not entirely clear. Can the path near the railway line on the Britannia bridge be used for some purpose? That's something I've raised in the past.

There is pressure on health services. What steps will be taken to improve provision on the island at Penrhos Stanley Hospital, for example? What about plans to reduce the need to close Britannia bridge in high winds, and the emergency plans, lorry parks and so on if closure is necessary? What about plans for mitigation in the port of Holyhead? As I said, there are so many elements to this—too long a list to expect a response on all of them from the Minister—but there are hardly any robust measures set out to date. We must hear about those measures as a matter of urgency. And also, if I may say, we will need investment. So, can we have a commitment of additional resources to the local authority, who will have to deliver many elements of this? 

Let's return to the second element: how did this happen? We've had a description of the inspection programme that led to Friday's statement, but there are still questions for me. How could things have deteriorated so quickly, getting to such a critical point, it would appear, in such a brief period of time? It's a lot of work to look after a bridge of this kind—it's certainly not as easy as Lewis Carroll suggested in Through the Looking-Glass:

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 5:22, 25 October 2022

'I had just / Completed my design / To keep the Menai bridge from rust / By boiling it in wine.'

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

That's not how you do it. But was the maintenance done, the painting and so on, robust enough? Certainly, I've seen rust. More than usual? I don't know; I'm not an engineer. But was the Welsh Government sufficiently monitoring how UK Highways was carrying out its work? And is it the job of UK Highways to identify problems earlier—a preventative maintenance schedule—or to respond to problems as they arose? I would very much hope that the requirements of the contract required proactivity.

We must put safety first, of course, but we also need a thorough assessment as to whether closure was the only option. Could we move more quickly, safely, to reopen? Am I right in understanding that it's assessment that will happen over the next three or four months, and that the maintenance work could take longer than that? 

Let's turn to the final point. I and others have warned on this for a long time. We need a new crossing. The Welsh Government had pledged to deliver a new crossing, and it still hasn't happened. There's a price to pay for delay—a price in pounds, when inflation is so high, but also a community price too. The fact that the Wylfa programme came to an end is often blamed, but let's be clear: it wasn't a response to a traffic problem; that's not why we need a dual carriageway where the Britannia bridge is. Yes, it's annoying to wait in a queue to cross, but, in reality, it is resilience that we're talking about here. There are two crossings, and one of them is a 200-year-old suspension bridge.

I almost got the Welsh Government's agreement to get a three-lane peak-flow system, but Government engineers ultimately decided that the bridge was too narrow for that, particularly given that traffic joins the Britannia bridge at a high speed. Perhaps we could look at implementing something like that on a temporarily basis now. But the reality is that we need a permanent solution, a resilient solution. It's one thing to be an island, it's another thing to be isolated, and that is the reality that's been highlighted now. I look forward to hearing a renewed commitment to restart, as a matter of urgency, the work of developing a new crossing. 

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 5:25, 25 October 2022

Well, I'd like to thank the Member for the way in which he has engaged with this issue, and I understand his concerns, and those questions are fair. I will try and answer some of them now. I will write to him with those I haven't answered, and, as I say, we will set up a meeting for him and others to speak with the Welsh Government chief engineer to talk through the detailed questions and concerns he has.

I think the overall questions, 'Was enough done?' 'Are there lessons learned?', are fair questions, and those are questions we're asking ourselves, and we shall be reviewing what has happened to get us to this stage. I think it's fair to say that our officials were surprised when we had the report last Wednesday that urgent work needed to be done. I was told about it Wednesday and initially told that it is not unusual for concerns to be raised, but the process is to challenge and to test them, given the consequences of closing, to make sure we were absolutely certain. I was then told on Thursday, having had further testing and further conversations—. As I say, the firm of engineers who've been doing this work are world-renowned for this work. They also work on the Clifton suspension bridge, so are familiar with the type of engineering involved. And given that their advice was so clear, it was felt that this had to be done right away, but it wasn't something we anticipated. So, obviously, something had changed since the previous inspection to require this work. But, in a sense, the system worked. The system is one of checks—regular checks, follow-up work, analysis—and that's what happened. It was first identified as a problem in 2019, there was a restriction on heavy vehicles crossing, further follow-up and testing work was done, and that has resulted in today's decision and discussion. So, in a sense, the safety measures we had in place have proven effective.

The risk of a catastrophic event happening to the bridge is still low, but it is too high for us to be able to risk it. And as the Member rightly pointed out, this is a very old bridge. Some 40 of the hangers were replaced in 1990s, but there are over 200 remaining that are much older, and a much older technology. And that also creates a degree of uncertainty, because the newer technology is able to be tested and able to be monitored in a far more reliable way. There's a degree of uncertainty that we have with the much older hangers. That is one of the reasons why we've been cautious in making the decisions that we have. It's possible that the checks that will happen over the next two weeks will find that this has been an overreaction and that we'll be able to open the bridge, with a weight restriction, much, much sooner. My officials advise me that they think that's unlikely, but it is certainly a possibility, and we won't keep this closed any longer than we feel is justified by the balance of risks.

To try and answer some of the questions about the traffic flowing, well, there are plans being developed with the local authority and with UK Highways to monitor that and to put in place any mitigation measures, and I'm happy to give you more detail of those. In terms, then, of the contingencies for what should happen if both bridges are closed—. And just some reassurance on this—this has tended to happen something like no more than twice a year. So, it's a rare event and, when it happens, it generally happens for a matter of hours. It clearly causes huge disruption, and I'm not minimising it; I'm just putting it into context of how often. I think it's closed 10 times since 1987, the Britannia bridge.

Now, as it happens, there are high winds predicted for tomorrow, so it allows us to immediately put in place plans to inform drivers of the conditions and to urge those with vulnerable vehicles, like caravans and motorbikes, not to travel while those high-wind conditions are in place, and those that do so do so at their own risk. The officials are working with the north Wales trunk road agency on a new high-winds strategy for the A55 Britannia bridge to review wind gusts against the speed of vehicles, and the option to reduce the speed limit to 30 mph could assist with allowing the most vulnerable vehicles to cross at high-wind gusts. There are also contingency plans being drafted, and initial options in this plan would include the options to increase park-and-ride facilities, create potential stacking site options, and review the rail use to and from the island. So, there is a lot of thought, as you might imagine, going into looking at a whole range of possibilities, given the importance of this link.

In terms of the long-term resilience of the bridge, as Rhun ap Iorwerth mentioned, work has been going on to look into a third crossing. That has now gone through WelTAG stage 2. It would cost somewhere in the order of £400 million. That's the current estimate. So, it's a significant decision to make and investment to make. As you know, it's been reviewed as part of the roads review panel, along with all other schemes in Wales, and we'll also be asking the Burns review in north Wales to look at what contingencies could be put in place in the short term. Even were we to start to build it now, the process takes somewhere around seven years. These things are expensive and slow. So, we will be asking Burns to address the issue of resilience in the longer term, and that report will be available next year.

So, I think, as I've set out, we're doing some short-term things. If that inspection in two weeks' time shows that the decision was the right one, then some detailed modelling will be done by an entirely separate firm, who also are highly experienced in these structures, to make sure that it is independent, and then further modelling will be done. So, we will make sure that we do this right and we will make sure that we do it with safety in mind, and we will do all we can in the meantime to help the people of Ynys Môn and beyond who are inconvenienced by the congestion this causes at peak times.

Photo of Carolyn Thomas Carolyn Thomas Labour 5:31, 25 October 2022

I've got a few suggestions as well from residents. Some of them have probably already been covered, if that's okay. As I said before, Britannia is a permanent bottleneck and there are two carriageways on the bridge, but there's also space for another lane, which has been discussed in the past and was raised earlier. So, would the Minister request an urgent re-evaluation of the third central lane across the Britannia bridge, with traffic management to suit the direction of flow at peak times?

And also, as was mentioned as well, there's a lower deck on the Britannia bridge, and I know cyclists have been asking for a long time if that could be reopened again as a cycle route. That could happen now. The railway is fenced off, so that could really happen now, if there were cameras there. That could be an option. They've also suggested maybe minibuses for staff and more frequent trains to be timetabled, but they do know that's quite difficult as well, to fit that in. 

Safety is paramount, so thank you to the engineers for spotting this. It is really inconvenient, but we appreciate that it is checked regularly.

And could I also ask you for an update on the A494 River Dee crossing? I know, quite a few years ago, there was possibly an issue there about it deteriorating, and it might have to go to one carriageway. This is all part of the same route in and out of Wales. So, could you give me an update on that, please, as well? Thank you.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 5:33, 25 October 2022

Certainly. In terms of the points the Member made about alternative suggestions, that is something that the Britannia bridge contingency plans—which I mentioned and which I've currently been drafting, looking at options—would look at, to look at the whole range of things that we could do. In terms of cycling access, one of the things that's being looked at now as part of this two-week review is whether or not the restriction on cyclists having to dismount and push their bicycles across the bridge is proportional, and whether or not cyclists will be able to cross. That's being tested, as well as, as I said, the access for emergency vehicles going slowly over the bridge when the Britannia bridge isn't available.

In terms of the Dee bridge, which is obviously a separate point and we shouldn't link them as they are different issues, but as you've asked for clarification, I am happy to confirm that a preferred option of a new river crossing for westbound traffic and the partial reuse of the existing bridge for eastbound traffic has been identified. Draft orders are planned for this winter, with a public inquiry pencilled in for next summer, and, providing all that is approved, construction could begin in 2024. Those plans are not subject to the roads review, because they were already under way, and those are in train.

Photo of Sam Rowlands Sam Rowlands Conservative 5:34, 25 October 2022

Diolch, Llywydd. As you'll be aware, I did submit an emergency question on this issue, but clearly withdrew it as this statement was announced, and I'm grateful to the Welsh Government and the Deputy Minister for bringing forward today's statement. It's appreciated. I'm also grateful, Deputy Minister, that you made it clear in your statement as to the decision making around the closure of the Menai bridge and understanding who is responsible for what within that. As has already been mentioned here today, the immediate closure of the Menai bridge, which sees thousands of vehicles crossing per day, is really concerning, and I appreciate, Deputy Minister, your acknowledgement of the importance of this crossing to the island and to the mainland equally.

I'll just raise a couple of points, Llywydd. I appreciate that time is very short, but you've already mentioned, Deputy Minister, the point around the contingency plans when high winds are likely to close Britannia bridge. I would ask that you share those contingency plans, if they're not already shared, as quickly as possible, so that businesses and locals know how that will work. I think that's a very important point.

Secondly, looking at the longer term, the programme of work is going to take around 16 weeks to complete, and then only looking to reopen for vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes. I would be interested to know when you envisage vehicles heavier than 7.5 tonnes being able to cross the Menai bridge in the future, to create that wider capacity that's needed to cross on and off the island.

And then thirdly, Deputy Minister, you alluded to this, and it was mentioned in the statement, the fact that this problem was highlighted initially in 2019, so clearly there has been a pattern of concern over a series of years and months. It's still not clear to me why, even though there has been a pattern of concern over a long time—we're looking at three years plus here—there was an immediate and sudden decision that had to be made without warning for locals and for businesses alike. So, I'd appreciate perhaps a bit more clarity as to why that pattern of concern wasn't properly considered.

And very finally, Llywydd, just really a plea for regular and quality communication, please, to local residents and businesses in the area. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 5:37, 25 October 2022

Thank you. Well, certainly, on your last point, I'd appreciate the help of all Members to make sure that we're able to communicate these messages with honesty and subtlety to constituents. There has been a somewhat hysterical tone amongst some political parties over the weekend to try to create some point-scoring, which I think is deeply inappropriate and doesn't help people to understand the nature of the problems that we are dealing with. So, I hope we won't see any more of that, and I'd be very happy to engage with all Members who are interested in a full and frank conversation about what's happening and the options as we go through them. This is something where party politics should have no place, in my view.

In terms of the contingency plans, I'm happy to set them out for you by letter, but they are as they already stand: to warn and inform drivers of our advisory restrictions when they are required. As I said, they are required infrequently and, generally, for relatively short periods of time. And, as I said, we are working on a new contingency strategy to look at other options, which I'll keep Members fully updated about.

In terms of when the bridge is likely to reopen without restrictions, well, I think that really does depend on the analysis of the state of the hangers. It's not for me to second guess the results of the engineering report, but in the event that all or many of the hangers need to be replaced, then clearly that's going to be a considerable piece of work. The 7.5 tonne restriction, I'd imagine, wouldn't be able to be lifted until the engineers were convinced that was safe. And given that there is concern about the brittle nature of the hangers, it would seem to me that it's premature to think about lifting restrictions altogether until that full assessment and work is carried out. 

I think I've answered the question about the lack of warning and the state of the bridge. There have been regular inspections, and these are industry standards. This is not something peculiar to the Menai bridge; this is what happens with other similar bridges. It is a higher standard of inspection than normal roads, and as well as being of a greater frequency, the checks taking place within the process are to a much higher and more thorough level, and the checking involved within the different agencies responsible and the companies and, separate to them, independent peer reviews is quite considerable. That's one of the reasons why it has taken so long, since the identification of the first problem in 2019, because this is a very thorough and methodical approach, done at arm's length from each other to make sure that it is robust. So, I think it would be unfair to represent this as a slow response to evidence of concern. I think this has been a thorough and methodical approach, in line with industry standard around the world, and that is the process that has shown us that there are problems that justify closing the bridge, so I think we've acted prudently and responsibly. But as I said in answer to Rhun ap Iorwerth, we will of course be conducting a lessons-learned exercise, to see if any mistakes were made that would have prevented us from getting to this position today. But I'm not aware of any that have come to light so far.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 5:40, 25 October 2022

(Translated)

Thank you for the statement and an opportunity to discuss this important issue. As you know, I represent the constituency on the mainland closest to the Menai bridge and the Britannia bridge. It’s a very busy civic area, including businesses and shops, playing fields, a business park, a hotel, schools and hundreds of homes, and also this is where Ysbyty Gwynedd is. We had queues of nearly three hours just to leave the car park at the hospital, even before the cars joined the queues to cross the Britannia bridge. By now, hospital staff who live only a few miles away on Anglesey face a two-hour journey in each direction every day. So, what consideration are you giving to the specific situation that Ysbyty Gwynedd faces, in terms of the staff, the ambulance service, those who attend the clinics, and the patients and their families?

I agree that the Menai bridge had to be closed for safety reasons, despite the havoc that that has caused. I can see that. And anybody sensible would be able to see that. The safety problems came to the attention of officials last Wednesday—that’s what you said in your statement. I would suspect that, by now, enough time has passed in order to at least agree an alternative traffic plan, a temporary plan, for the area. When can we see the alternative traffic plan in terms of traffic flow, and, more importantly, when are we going to see that being implemented in the area?

Evidently, the situation as it is at present, with people taking two hours to reach Ysbyty Gwynedd from Anglesey, is not sustainable, so we have to bring forward another plan in order to improve traffic flow in the area, and I want to know when that will happen. We, on this side of the Chamber, want to see practical solutions for the benefit of local people while the bridge is being secured, and many constituents are bringing ideas forward that sound very sensible to me—practical ideas about how to improve traffic flow in the area. Are you willing to listen to some of those ideas?

We’ve shared a few this afternoon. Rhun ap Iorwerth and Carolyn Thomas have talked about the idea of creating three lanes on the Britannia bridge temporarily, with two open for traffic to the mainland in the morning, and two lanes open in the other direction in the evening. That sounds very sensible. If that isn’t possible, can we have an explanation as to why, because many people are asking why we can’t do that kind of thing?

So, I would just like to have some assurance from you that you’re willing to listen to such ideas. There are other ideas that are being postulated as well, in terms of doing things differently around some of the roundabouts in the area in order to improve the traffic flow temporarily. So, I hope that you are willing to listen to those ideas and appreciate the fact that we are trying to obtain solutions that will help people to reach the places they’re trying to get to more quickly than they're able to at present.

Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 5:44, 25 October 2022

Thank you again for the tone of that contribution, because I fully recognise that people are distressed and annoyed and concerned about the fallout from this decision. I'm particularly aware of the situation of the hospital. I think we've seen, obviously, because of the sudden nature of the announcement, and the inability for people to plan and think ahead, and I hope that will settle down as people realise that they need to allow longer to get to appointments and be able to plan far more. I guess in truth there are limits to what we can do within the confines of the options available to us.

Certainly in terms of the Member's point about whether we are willing to listen to ideas the public have for improving traffic flow: of course we are. And certainly, as I said, I'll make our officials available to the local Members who wish to meet with them, and you can discuss and test some of the ideas, the practicality of them, with those engineering experts to see what can and cannot be done. But I certainly, as the Minister, am very open to looking at any option we possibly can to open this as quickly as possible when it is safe to do so and to try and mitigate the congestion that is inevitably caused by it, both now and in the future. So, you have my commitment to do that.

In terms of when we'll have a final traffic plan finalised, 'I'm not certain' is the honest answer. It's something we're actively working on. We will be able to update you when you meet the officials, and I'll be able to give you more information as soon as I am able.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:45, 25 October 2022

(Translated)

I thank the Deputy Minister. The other items on the agenda have been postponed, so that brings our proceedings to a close.

(Translated)

The meeting ended at 17:46.