7. Debate on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee Report — 'Annual Report 2021/22'

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:15 pm on 9 November 2022.

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Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 5:15, 9 November 2022

Turning to Bills, as the First Minister set out in his latest statement on the legislative programme on 5 July, we are moving forward with an ambitious programme of primary legislation. We have introduced the first six Bills of this Senedd term and the committee has played a significant and fundamental role in those to date. I'd like to thank the committee and the Chair for their work on the first two Bills of this term that have been passed by the Senedd, namely the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act and the Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Act. The report refers to 40 recommendations that were made in relation to both of those Bills, and it draws out some of the overarching themes and issues in scrutinising the Bills to date. As we go forward with our legislative programme, we will reflect on those themes.

Now, the report mentions the committee's current work on two Bills that are currently making their way through the Senedd: the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill and the Historic Environment (Wales) Bill. I think the historic environment Bill is worth a particular mention, given that it is the first consolidation Bill and the committee is the lead scrutiny committee for it. The Environmental Protection (Single-use Plastic Products) (Wales) Bill and the Agriculture (Wales) Bill have also now been introduced to the Senedd. These are the first two Bills within year 2 of the legislative programme. These are outside the reporting period covered by the annual report, but I wanted to give my thanks to the committee, and the Senedd more generally, for their scrutiny of the single-use plastics Bill, given that it is proceeding on a fast-track timetable. 

I'd like to turn now to the UK legislation, and I recognise the comments that have been made and I will try to address them, perhaps supplementing some of the points I wanted to make. Our fundamental position remains that legislation in devolved areas should be made in Wales. However, there continue to be circumstances where provisions in UK Bills can be sensible and advantageous, provided that this does not result in any transfer of powers or responsibility and always retains the constitutional ability of the Government and the Senedd to legislate at a time more suited to, and appropriate to, our priorities and the legislative programme. We are committed, as a Government, to ensuring that our involvement with UK Bills remains consistent with our principles and to ensuring that this Senedd is afforded as much scrutiny as possible through the legislative consent memorandum process.

It is extremely rare that we would proactively approach the UK Government to legislate on our behalf; on the contrary, there has been an unacceptable number of instances in recent years of the UK Government introducing devolved provision before Parliament, of which we have had no prior sight. This has been a recurring issue in the current UK Parliament's session. This lack of engagement with the UK Government and with the Welsh Government is a major obstacle to the effective operation of the current legislative consent process. I recognise that it is a part of the nature of the committee that it operates almost in a non-partisan way because of its function as a constitution and legislative committee, and that point is actually recognised. I think there is criticism of the UK Government, just as there are criticisms, as are appropriate, to be made, as part of the scrutiny process by the committee, and I think that shows the maturity of the way the committee has been developed within our parliamentary structure.

So, we'll continue to call upon the UK Government to improve its engagement with us in relation to its legislative programme, with a view to, in turn, maximising the Senedd's scrutiny ability. I just want to add a few comments on that, because I fully recognise the issues that exist with regard to the LCM process. Of course, we do not control the UK Government's legislative programme, and, of course, the number of LCMs is not a matter that is determined by us, but is actually determined by the impact of those pieces of legislation itself. We have to respond, whether consent is given or not given, and I would just make the point, of course, that consent isn't given by the Welsh Government—it is, actually, a recommendation from the Welsh Government, but it ultimately comes to the floor of the Senedd.

But, the points you make with regard to scrutiny are right, and I think they are a fundamental part of the dysfunction of our constitutional arrangement, which does not properly contain, I think, a federalised, constitutional, parliamentary structure that enables a very different process to the development and initiation of legislation. A system where the drive of an enormous amount of UK legislation can almost dominate the entire legislative processes of devolved nations isn't the right way of going about it, and there are clearly constitutional lessons that have to be learnt there.