7. Debate on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee Report — 'Annual Report 2021/22'

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:25 pm on 9 November 2022.

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Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 5:25, 9 November 2022

Diolch, Llywydd, and in my short response here, can I just first of all thank the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution for the serious, thoughtful and considered way in which he's responded to this debate, and it typifies his approach to the broad remit of the work of this committee? We really welcome that. And on that basis, can I first of all turn to the comments from current and former members of this committee? Comment was made by Peter Fox that people on this committee have parked their political allegiances outside the door, and they come in and they look at the evidence, and they look at what needs to be done to have effective scrutiny. And that has been the hallmark of this committee, himself included. But in turning to the remarks by James, you've also typified this response as well, and your challenge that we all put to the UK Government for the sake of the UK to actually engage early and engage meaningfully, to assist not only Welsh Government but actually to assist this Senedd, particularly in legislation that's emanating from the UK. It was a point very well made, and it was great to hear you say once again that primary idea, the primary principle of Welsh law for Welsh people, made here, scrutinised here is what we're trying to do by default. 

Alun, I very much welcome your contribution and the comment that you made about impacting on the Sewel convention, this sledgehammer approach that's being taken where there is non-consent after non-consent after non-consent. At what point—the question has been raised not just by us but the House of Lords committee and House of Commons committee—does Sewel actually break, or how do we codify it in a way and strengthen it, as the Counsel General was saying, that actually makes it matter for these modern times? And the transparency on inter-governmental and inter-parliamentary scrutiny is going to become increasingly important, and the work that the committee has been doing on engaging on an inter-parliamentary level to actually hold to account the inter-governmental machinery that's now put in place, it holds real potential, I think. 

Can I also thank Peter for your contribution and for your thanks that you made to the outstanding secretariat that we do have? They're a small team but they are genuinely exemplary. And also, the focus you had on the better inter-governmental work, and for the good again of making the UK, as it currently is, work better, and it's not simply to do with words such as 'respect'; it's actually mechanisms we put in place and the transparency we put in place around it. So, thank you, Peter, for your contribution to the committee. 

And it would be remiss of me, Llywydd, not to mention two other contributors to the work of this committee over the last year and the period this reports as well. Rhys ab Owen, thanks for his contribution to the committee on all matters, but especially, I have to say, with his specialism on justice matters as well. And also, we shouldn't forget, as well, Jayne Bryant for her work early on.

Minister, just in my closing thoughts here in response to what was a great and comprehensive response to our committee report, and looking forward as well, we do want to look forward, curiously; we're looking back at a period here, and you rightly said that this has been a challenging context, these times—the post-Brexit times, the pandemic times. It's meant that we have, of necessity, had a certain focus on much of our bread-and-butter work, and we get that. There's also been a need to respond to LCMs that have either been initiated at a UK level, or ones that you've identified that you want to leap on to. But you will understand, as a former Chair of this committee, that we can never resile from that basic premise of saying that we want to see, by default, made-in-Wales legislation where this Senedd can get its teeth into that legislation, rather than be at a distance from it where we cannot seriously influence it, and also that we take a dim view of an Executive, either here or up at Westminster, taking powers unto itself. We have to be the ultimate scrutineers on this. But we do want to move on going ahead to what I think are really exciting times with the consolidation Bill that we're currently looking at, which is going to be groundbreaking in terms of the UK, and we will help you to get that right. We'll work constructively with you. We may have to look at the EU retained law, but we'll see what will happen with that, but that will be a heck of a workload.

We will continue to look at the impact of the TAC on devolved areas, across that range of devolved areas we have. We want to be more proactive on the work we can do on justice and a range of other matters as well, but, to do that, we need to free up some time and thinking space to do it. At the moment, the workload is immense. But my thanks to all those who've contributed, to current and former members of this committee, to our small but excellent secretariat, and at the risk of—. We're going to avoid making you an honorary member of the committee, but you do seem to be in front of us every other week, and we do appreciate that. We'll continue to challenge, Counsel General, you and other Ministers, but we're doing it, please understand, for the right reasons. We're doing it for the sake of this Senedd and the role that we all play. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd.