Of course, we know and we opposed on these benches the Welsh Government introducing the—oh, thank you for your statement, by the way, Minister—the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021. I believe that's a battle that we've lost, and I do feel sorry for those farmers. [Interruption.] Hold on. I feel sorry for those farmers who have no recorded incidents of agricultural pollution, because they do feel that they are being penalised.

Let me make it clear from these benches: we do not want to see pollution. I'm the shadow Minister for climate change and that includes the environment. And we all, as passionate Welsh Conservatives, believe that the pollution of our rivers, our watercourses, the sea and anything is unacceptable, and we've long called on these benches for you to take the water companies to task. But I have to also say that the points you've made about wet wipes and things like that—. I've been along many times when we've had lots of e-mails saying, 'There are hundreds of dead fish', so you go and—. Dŵr Cymru, to be fair, investigate, and it is just purely as a result, actually, in those instances—. All the pollution incidents in my constituency, since I've been here, have actually not been related to farming activities. Going back to that particular argument, it was never a given that £20 million would be enough.

I just have a question for you here. At a time when Jeremy Clarkson and, of course, my farmer in Llanfairfechan, Gareth Wyn Jones, are speaking out now, Minister, so eloquently on behalf of farmers, saying that they want these mountains of regulations that seek to micromanage every acre to be slashed, will you look, going forward, to see how you can work better with our farmers?

Now, of course, my colleague James Evans mentioned today about phosphates and the housing issue. You've made the argument to us: 'Look, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that you care about the environment and then agree to pollution.' We're not agreeing to pollution. What we are saying is that there are nearly 10,000 houses stuck in the planning system. Now, all I would say is, surely we don't want those high levels, but if those houses are not allowed to go ahead, put those developers out of their misery and say that they are never going to get planning. It's the fact that you have got gridlock in the planning system.

Sewage pollution is the top pollutant in Welsh bathing waters, according to Natural Resources Wales, and one thing that I wasn’t aware of until recently, when we have had some pollution incidents, is where members of the public, either through their developers or—. They do, if you like, illegal connections. I’m finding more and more of these cropping up, whereby the river Conwy is being polluted and then, when it’s traced back, it’s actually a private development or it’s housing somewhere, and the water companies can’t always identify it. So, what steps are you taking, Minister, to ensure that members of the public, when they are developing a property or redeveloping a property, know the dos and don’ts for tapping into the drainage system? Do you agree with me that we should be legislating now to ensure that water companies are not allowed to leave sewage discharge incidents unaddressed—some for several years?

You have claimed that it would cost £9 billion to £14 billion to remove combined storm overflows. There were 184 sewage pipes found to be operating without permits in Wales, reiterating what I have just said, with just one application for a permit made in Wales as of March 2022. Yet, in 2022, there were 3,299 discharge incidents from these pipes without permits, and that has increased by 43 per cent since 2020.

So, basically, what I am saying is that what’s happening now isn’t working. So, will you commit, Minister, to taking action on the rapid increase in discharge incidents, clamping down on those illegally discharging waste? And let’s have—. I don’t like the term 'holistic', but let’s have an all-encompassing, multifaceted approach, so that we stamp out, once and for all, the pollution to our waterways. Thank you.