The next item is the first Welsh Conservatives debate, on Changing Places toilets, and I call on Mark Isherwood to move the motion.

Motion NDM8126 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

Calls on the Welsh Government to provide a suitable funding mechanism and clear guidance to local authorities to ensure there is equitable provision of Changing Places toilets in every county in Wales.

Motion moved.

Diolch. Well, key to the delivery of the Equality Act 2010 is the availability of Changing Places toilets, which go beyond the provision of standard accessible toilets and are designed so that everyone, regardless of their access needs or impairments or reliance on the assistance of carers or specialist equipment, can use a toilet facility with dignity and hygienically. They're larger accessible toilets with equipment such as hoists, curtains, adult-sized changing benches and space for carers. Speaking here in 2019 on the Changing Places campaign, I stated that, although this was launched in 2006, I had just attended a Changing Places steering group meeting, focused on bringing Changing Places into the north-east Wales counties, hopefully starting with the town of Mold, where a campaign for a Changing Places toilet in the Daniel Owen Centre still continues today. It was chaired by Kim Edwards, who herself has Friedreich's ataxia. She said that the lack of current facilities means that disabled people don't go out. Providing a proper changing place provides all the space and equipment needed to avoid people being changed on an unhygienic floor, not changed at all, or even not going out into the community in the first place. Her words. It was then already 16 years since I'd first heard this raised in this place, and yet people like Kim are still having to fight these campaigns 19 years later.

Questioning the First Minister here last month, I stated that

'TCC, Trefnu Cymunedol Cymru—Together Creating Communities, a group of dedicated community leaders from organisations across Flintshire, Wrexham and Denbighshire, have joined together to take action on the issue of Changing Places toilets. They say that, despite assurances regarding their provision over successive Welsh Governments, going back two decades, including by some who are still Ministers in this Welsh Government, there are still only around 50 Changing Places toilets in the whole of Wales.'

When I then asked the First Minister

'when will the Welsh Government enable people in Wales who are not able to use standard accessible toilets to have their basic human needs and equality rights met, to enjoy a day out without the stress of worrying about accessing toilet facilities and thereby to increase their independence and overall health and well-being?' he replied that

'The responsibilities in this area lie with local authorities.'

Welsh Government officials, he said, 

'are tracking the money that has been made available to local authorities'.

However, as the Welsh Government confirmed to me in a written answer, they do not have a specific fund for the delivery of Changing Places toilets. Further, TCC state that the Welsh Government guidance issued to local authorities in Wales is not being followed consistently, and that the result to date has been disappointing.

In contrast, the UK Government has launched a Changing Places toilet programme, with a dedicated £30 million fund for local authorities in every part of England to help increase the number of Changing Places toilets there. Hence, our motion calls on the Welsh Government to provide a suitable funding mechanism and clear guidance to local authorities to ensure there is equitable provision of Changing Places toilets in every county in Wales. TCC state, if, for example, the Welsh Government could commit to at least match funding one Changing Places toilet per county, a national group purchase order could be secured at a rough cost of only £275,000—£25,000 each; equivalent to just over £1 per disabled person in the country.

The social model of disability says that people are disabled by barriers in society, not by their impairment, and a lack of basic facilities such as these are leaving people disabled, trapped, isolated and dependent on others. I've even heard of parents of disabled children being issued changing mats by their occupational therapists to be used on the floor in a public accessible toilet. Although Crohn's & Colitis UK rightly state that there needs to be better awareness of invisible disabilities, so that everyone can understand why someone with Crohn's or colitis needs to use the toilet urgently, standard accessible toilets do not meet the needs of all disabled people.

Changing Places facilities also have an economic benefit: attracting disabled people and their families to use shops, tourist attractions and hospitality venues. Disabled families could contribute a huge amount to the economy, when the UK purple pound, the spending power of households with disabled people in them, is worth £274 billion.

The lack of Changing Places is a social justice issue, a public health issue, a local government issue, a building regulations issue, and, above all, a disability rights issue. I therefore call on Members to support, and the Welsh Government to act, on our motion today.

I’m pleased to have an opportunity to speak in this debate as Plaid Cymru spokesperson on social justice and equalities and as chair of the cross-party group on learning disabilities. Plaid Cymru is fully supportive of measures to improve all kinds of public accessibility for disabled people and those with specific needs, and we are pleased to see this proposal to ensure that Changing Places toilets are available across Wales being tabled, and we are pleased to support the proposal.

Being able to access toilet facilities when needed is fundamental to an individual’s dignity and health. But, being able to access such a toilet is often difficult for disabled people, and if you have complex or multiple disabilities, being able to access a toilet that meets your needs is even more of a challenge.

As the motion suggests, although these appropriate and vital facilities for individuals who require personal support to use the toilet or to change pads are available in some places now, the process of installing facilities of this kind in public places in Wales has been too slow and inconsistent, particularly in rural areas. For example, there is only one registered Changing Places toilet in Ceredigion and Powys—a situation that I am sure that all Members will agree is unacceptable. This means that there is no equality of access to appropriate facilities for all of the citizens of Wales, regardless of their location or physical ability.

It was Mencap Cymru that led the Changing Places campaign in Wales back in 2008. They have spoken about the difference that being able to access Changing Places toilets can make to people with disabilities and their families, in terms of being able to enjoy time out of their homes, be it in public places such as theatres, cinemas or shopping centres, or opportunities to enjoy parks, rural areas, areas of natural beauty or tourist attractions. Without these facilities, these opportunities that should be available to everyone are only available to the few. Mencap says that the funding allocated to install Changing Places toilets in Oakwood, St Fagans, Llangollen, Museum Wales in Cardiff, Pili Palas and Corris visitor centre has been transformational in ensuring that disabled people and tourists can enjoy some of Wales's finest attractions. But there is a pressing need for more such facilities to expand the kinds of experiences and leisure opportunities available to people in all parts of Wales.

These facilities are vital and, as Mark Ishwerood said, they boost the tourism industry. The managers of these attractions say that they receive a number of calls from people who wish to check whether they have a Changing Places toilet before they visit. And if we are to be an equal nation, if we want to lead the way in terms of inclusive tourism, then the provision of these kinds of facilities is central to that laudable aim that we should all support. The visitor levy could support this kind of innovative and inclusive development. 

It's hard to believe that any planning application for new buildings can fail to include a Changing Places toilet. How can we justify not providing a toilet for everyone, regardless of their needs and regardless of where they live? If we are agreed on this, then I encourage everyone to support this motion.

I'd like to pay tribute to Jan Thomas, chief executive of the Flintshire Disability Forum, and TCC, Together Creating Communities, for campaigning for more Changing Places facilities across north-east Wales. They lobbied me when I was a Flintshire county councillor and, since then, I have questioned if a Changing Places toilet can be incorporated in a new public building or during the redesigning of an existing one.

On most occasions, there have been issues with adequate space, especially in existing buildings, and more so if they have some listed status. Budget isn't usually the biggest constraint. The Changing Places facilities are specially adapted, accessible toilets that have a hoist, an adult-sized changing bed and grab rails. There needs to be plenty of room for manoeuvring around. The main importance, I believe, is ensuring that consideration is given right at the design stage, when there is a blank canvas, and it isn't just an add on.

On Friday, I visited a stand showing plans for the football museum in Wrexham, where the existing listed museum building will be reconfigured internally, and I asked if they could incorporate a Changing Places toilet there. But they responded that they were restricted by space and layout, as the building was listed and they're already in lengthy conversations with Cadw regarding design. But they do want to try and incorporate one; it just might not be the right size, and be slightly reduced, but they are working on it.

After that I visited the new well-being hub in Wrexham, and it's been totally refurbished, thanks to Welsh Government funding in collaboration with the health board and Wrexham council, and I was so pleased to see two Changing Places toilets incorporated—one adult and one child—which also had showers and a big changing unit. It also had kitchen units that moved up and down, it had a sensory room, and children's early years indoor and outdoor play areas, which is fantastic, and a consulting room for people with long COVID. I just thought they'd thought of everything, right at the early planning stages, which is so important.

Wrexham also have another two Changing Places toilets in various locations, and Broughton Shopping Park are going to incorporate one, along with the John Summers building in Flintshire. Jan Thomas and TCC said, 'We know from the people we work with and support that the biggest concern about going out into the community is the lack of accessible toilet facilities.' And Changing Places toilets enable all disabled people to have the same experiences as the non-disabled. It is a basic human right. Thank you.

Can I thank my colleague, the Member for North Wales, for proposing this debate and for all of his hard work in promoting the rights of disabled people? It is clear that we need to do more to create a fully inclusive society. Far too many barriers exist that prevent disabled people from being able to fully participate in everyday activities. As we've already heard, there are only 50 Changing Places toilets in the whole of Wales. This compounds the fact that the availability of public toilets has generally reduced over the past few years, whilst those that do exist are not fully accessible. So, it's not that easy to find a toilet as it is, but for a person who's disabled and who needs to use a toilet, it makes it extraordinarily difficult to find a facility that meets their needs.

Now, with my former local authority hat on, it is difficult for a council to balance all of the priorities that they have: you have limited budgets and some considerable pressures to meet, which can mean that things like toilet facilities sadly end up not at the front of the queue for funding. And, yes, whilst local authorities are required to produce and publicise a local toilet strategy, we know that not all local authorities reference the need for Changing Places in their strategy. In our Monmouthshire 2019 toilet strategy, we did make reference to the availability of a changing place, available in a local community centre. We also ensured that the locations of toilets and their facilities were made available via a mapping app that could be accessed on a mobile phone. But I recognise that we should have done a lot more. So, there does need to be dedicated financial support for public bodies, to ensure that they can provide suitable changing place facilities, as well as strengthened guidance so that public bodies fully consider accessibility when producing a toilet strategy and designing public spaces. We might think making toilets more accessible is a small step, but it can have a hugely beneficial impact on disabled people and open up more opportunities to them.

And quickly touching on the purple pound—that is, the spending power of disabled households. Statistics from the Purple charity do show that, for the UK as a whole, businesses lose around £2 billion a month by not meeting the needs of disabled people. Around 75 per cent of disabled people have walked away from a business before, because of poor accessibility. So, providing these facilities, we can actually promote economic benefits as well as the social benefits.

So, I hope, Deputy Presiding Officer, that the Welsh Government will approach this debate in a positive way, and that as a Senedd we can explore ways to ensure that we meet the needs of disabled people from across Wales. Thank you.

I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to give an update on the steps that the Welsh Government is taking to help to ensure that Changing Places toilets are available the length and breadth of Wales.

And really approaching this in a very positive way in terms of the commitment that the Welsh Government has, quite clearly committed to promoting full community participation and active citizenship for all the people of Wales, and we fully understand the crucial part that Changing Places toilets can play in achieving this goal for many disabled people. While standard accessible toilets meet the needs of most disabled people, many disabled people require the extra provision facilitated by Changing Places toilets, and we're committed to ensuring they're provided throughout Wales. Thank you to all Members who've contributed this afternoon with good examples of what is already happening.

In September 2019, we published our framework, 'Action on Disability: The Right to Independent Living', and that set out a wide range of measures to tackle some of the key barriers that disabled people face with impairments. This framework was co-produced with disabled people, and it includes specific action around the provision of Changing Places toilets. 

In 2017, the Welsh Government introduced a requirement for each local authority in Wales to produce a local toilet strategy. When developing their strategies, local authorities were required to undertake an assessment of need, including consideration of the need for Changing Places toilets. The strategies must then set out how local authorities intend to best meet the identified needs, and this work must take place with the full involvement of their residents and other delivery partners, including disabled people, and we heard examples of campaigners working with local authorities and accessing funding, including Welsh Government funding.

In addition to these toilet strategy requirements, in February 2021 there was a draft consultation document issued, which introduced a range of proposed changes to building regulation, so they will include provision for Changing Places toilets. These proposed regulations would apply to new developments and those undergoing a material change of use, with the aim of increasing the provision of Changing Places toilets in publicly accessible buildings of a certain size. And the results of this consultation exercise are due to be published imminently.

The Welsh Government provides support to local authorities, as part, of course, of their annual revenue settlement, which ensures that they have flexibility to make appropriate local spending decisions. Authorities should be taking decisions on services and their budgets in the context of the breadth of their responsibilities, including those under Part 8 of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017. We recognise that the impact of inflation means that authorities are having difficult choices and budgets are under pressure, but of course, the revenue settlement for this financial year provided for an increase of 9.4 per cent, with no authority receiving an increase lower than 8.4 per cent.

But it's quite clear, and I can share this with you today, that Welsh Government has long been committed to promoting and advancing the rights of disabled people in Wales, and fully recognises that disabled people are marginalised in almost all areas of life. Key to achieving the liberation of disabled people is the removal of all physical, attitudinal and economic barriers that disabled people face with impairments. We aim to achieve this liberation through working within an embedded common understanding of the social model—Mark Isherwood knows our commitment to that—human rights and the importance of working within a co-production framework. We are committed to embedding the social model of disability in everything we do, and we believe that understanding and enacting the socioeconomic model is essential to removing the disabling barriers that blight the lives of disabled people. 

We are in the process of delivering training across Welsh Government and a number of key stakeholder bodies. The real opportunity lies with the disability rights taskforce, which the First Minister established in 2021, bringing together people with lived experience and expertise, Welsh Government policy leads and representative organisations to address disability with the aim of levering long-lasting changes. I'm pleased to report that the taskforce will soon be examining all our work regarding accessible toilets. All the work of the taskforce is being delivered in the spirit of co-production and is already achieving change. So, with all of these initiatives, the opportunities, the regulations, consultation, the disability rights taskforce, with that commitment to addressing this issue in terms of Changing Places, we will be supporting this motion. 

I call on Sam Rowlands to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I say what a pleasure it is to close today's Welsh Conservatives debate on Changing Places toilets? I'd like to thank all Members who have taken part and, in particular, for the cross-party support that the motion has received across the Chamber today. In closing this debate, I'd like to focus on perhaps three points that I think have been picked up by most Members across the Chamber. The first was outlined by Mark Isherwood, who opened today's debate and who, may I add, has done fantastic work in raising awareness of Changing Places toilets, as Members have highlighted, and continues to speak up on disability rights time and time again in this Chamber. 

Mark Isherwood highlighted that it is a key to the delivery of the Equality Act 2010, the availability of Changing Places toilets, which go beyond the provision, of course, of standard accessible toilets. These facilities are so important for so many people up and down Wales, with their larger, accessible toilets, with equipment such as hoists, curtains, changing benches and spaces for carers. Staggeringly, as Peter Fox highlighted in his contribution, there are still around just 50 Changing Places in the whole of Wales. Sioned Williams, in her contribution, highlighted that, without these spaces, it can have a detrimental impact on many people who want to go about their daily lives. Many simply just can't do the normal day-to-day activities that so many of us take for granted, or go to those places that so many of us just take for granted and enjoy.

Secondly, I just want to highlight how local authorities and other organisations can work with Welsh Government to ensure that these important facilities are introduced. Carolyn Thomas highlighted examples from her region of those organisations where those facilities are and where it works well, and perhaps organisations where those facilities could and should be. It's also worth highlighting that I know Conwy County Borough Council, when they built their new offices in Colwyn Bay, ensured that the Changing Places toilets were in that building. But that only happened because it happened at the design stage, and that's really important, actually, that it's thought through right at the start of any new building. 

As we sadly know, raised by Mark Isherwood, there are some local authorities that are not following the guidance that has been issued. I know, Minister, that you are supporting us here today, and I appreciate all the work that's ongoing, but clearly there are some local authorities that are still not following the guidance that was issued by the Welsh Government. [Interruption.] I thought I had three minutes, Deputy Presiding Officer. You're very kind. I'll try and wrap it up a bit more now as well.

I just want to quickly touch on what our motion is seeking to do. We want the Welsh Government to provide a suitable funding mechanism and clear guidance to local authorities to ensure there is equitable provision of Changing Places toilets in every county in Wales. I certainly appreciate the comments made by the Minister and her support for this motion here today. I again thank all Members for their constructive contributions and call on all Members to support our motion. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? Again, I've heard no objections. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.