3. Topical Questions

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:20 pm on 23 November 2022.

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Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 3:20, 23 November 2022

Thank you for the question. Of course, yes, last night, I thought it was a very impressive presentation by Professor Ciaran Martin, following on from the previous presentation by Sir David Lidington. I think these are very important contributions to our understanding of the constitutional issues that clearly do face us.

I think it's worth just being clear about, firstly, what the judgment was this morning. The judgment was a unanimous judgment of all five Supreme Court judges. It is a 34-page judgment, and I will be considering the detail of the judgment very carefully. The main question in the judgment was whether the Scottish Parliament had the power to legislate for the holding of a referendum on Scottish independence. Our role as a Welsh Government within that case was limited. It was not appropriate to intervene, so we carried out a watching brief. There will be a need to consider carefully, I think, all the findings of the Supreme Court and to consider all the submissions that were made, and the response of the Supreme Court to them. I can certainly assure the Senedd that I will undertake that task.

It's also important to be clear about what the conclusion of the Supreme Court was. The Supreme Court stated very clearly that the provision of the Scottish Independence Referendum Bill that provides that the question should be asked in a referendum would be, 'Should Scotland be an independent country?', and the determination of the Supreme Court was that that is a reserved matter. Now, as far as Wales is concerned, the position that we've taken is really set out within our reforming justice paper, which was published, I think, in June 2021, where it said that

'Future constitutional developments in the United Kingdom should be considered on a holistic basis and on the basis of constitutional principle, rather than by way of ad hoc reforms to particular constitutional settlements. This should be undertaken by a constitutional convention.'

Now, of course, we have our own independent commission; we've set it up very much to look at and to explore some of the issues that the Member has specifically raised, and perhaps I'll just remind the Senedd again of what the terms of the independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales is. There are two broad objectives: the first is to consider and develop options for fundamental reform of the constitutional structures of the United Kingdom, in which Wales remains an integral part, and the second is to consider and develop all progressive principle options to strengthen Welsh democracy and to deliver improvements for the people of Wales. Professor Ciaran Martin certainly raised the point that, constitutionally, there needs to be a route in which decisions can actually be taken, and I certainly hope that our own commission will actually explore what those are.

Now, you know that the position of the Welsh Government is that Wales's interests are best served by being part of the United Kingdom, but a United Kingdom that needs significant and radical reform, and those reforms are set out in the 'Reforming our union: shared governance in the UK' paper. I certainly am of the view that the best way of actually achieving constitutional reform and change is best achieved by electing a Labour Government across the UK in the next general election.