Item 7 today is a Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv) on mental health and community resilience. I call on Jenny Rathbone to move the motion.

Motion NDM8130 Jenny Rathbone

Supported by Huw Irranca-Davies, Mike Hedges, Sam Rowlands, Sioned Williams, Vikki Howells

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) the publication of MIND Cymru’s 'Together Through Tough Times' report;

b) that community resilience has a positive impact on good mental health.

2. Calls on Welsh Government to:

a) work with the voluntary and community sector to build resilient communities through:

(i) promoting social capital;

(ii) investing in community assets;

(iii) addressing barriers faced by certain groups; 

b) include the role played by community assets and networks in any future mental health strategy.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. We live in very difficult times. We've seen the biggest reduction in public service support for many, many years, and we've got the highest inflation rate for 41 years, with consumer prices jumping over 10 per cent. Food prices have gone up over 16 per cent in the last 12 months, which is the biggest jump since September 1977, when Jim Callaghan was our Prime Minister—a very long time ago. So, it's such an important winter and a challenging winter that we're going to be facing.

Money worries are not the only cause of mental illness, but it certainly doesn't help. I appreciated the comments of Dr Kamila Hawthorne, who's now president of the Royal College of General Practitioners, today, who described the number of her patients in Mountain Ash whose problems are so intractable that she feels powerless to do anything to help them. She feels squeezed like a lemon at the end of the day. The level of distress that her patients' situation is causing her and so many other front-line GPs is a real barometer to the level of pain in our society. So, I thought it was useful that we discussed this report, 'Together Through Tough Times' that was produced last year. But I think it's a really timely reminder of what we must do collectively in our communities to support people in their distress.

The research they commissioned, in collaboration with sister charities in Northern Ireland and Scotland, was carried out in four places across the UK: one in Haverfordwest, another in Portadown in Northern Ireland, in Glasgow, and in a suburb of Wolverhampton. It delivers three key messages for us: talking about mental well-being; supporting community hubs; and a strong, collaborative community and voluntary sector. These are the keys to enable us to get through tough times and to develop resilient communities that can support each other.

Looking at the first point, it is vital that mental well-being has parity with physical health, and we often talk about that. People are never slow to come forward with talking about the time they're going to have to wait for a hip operation or the bad back they experience. We have to redouble our efforts to fight the stigma attached to mental distress.

We've talked a lot about the epidemic of mental distress in our schools and colleges as a result of COVID and, obviously, people living in overcrowded, inadequate housing will have suffered greatly during the lockdown, but it isn't just poor housing that's the problem. Any child living in a dysfunctional home, where domestic violence is lurking under the radar, would have suffered from not being able to escape to the safety of school. There's a really important role for schools to give young people the space to talk about things that are upsetting them, in a safe, non-judgmental way. Rather than wait for the tragedy of a young pupil taking their life, as happened in Haverfordwest, we need to ensure that the new curriculum drives the change needed to focus on the well-being of pupils as well as their academic achievements.

There is a word of warning in the Mind report that communities should not over-rely on schools to provide this support, and that young people need to be able to access support outside of their social circle too. And in the case of bullying, I'm sure that that is an entirely relevant point. Youth services have an extremely important role to play here, and they often pick up on disturbing issues that haven't been addressed in school. But that links into the second key message for community resilience through these tough times, and that is the role of supporting community hubs.

Haverfordwest research focused on young people, and it found children and young people in Haverfordwest felt little ownership of or connection to their communities. Community hubs must cater for people of all ages, not just the very young and the very old. Children and young people don't have cars, and in a place like Haverfordwest, there's probably very little public transport as well, so they are seriously dependent on adults to get them to places where they might be able to find friendship and fun. Local hubs need to be catering for young people, to give them that space outside the home to help them make that difficult transition from childhood to adulthood, not necessarily in the same space or time.

On the other hand, I'm a great fan of inter-generational learning. My good friend Stan Thorne wasn't exactly a party animal, but he got a huge amount of pleasure from the inter-parliamentary chess competitions with young people that took place every year. For those who don't have grandparents living nearby, activities that bring the generations together—whether it's chess, gardening, singing or some other activity—can be a springboard for independent advice and stimulation for both parties. If the only community space in an area is a pub, where can young people under the age of 18 go?

Like young people, the report highlighted that newcomers to an area, ethnic minorities and people living in poverty also find it much more difficult to break into existing community networks. Having said that, there's a great quote from a woman in Portadown in Northern Ireland that illustrates that newcomers can inject new ideas and energy into a community.

'I live on an estate where people are kind and friendly. We're very chatty people'— says this woman—

'My neighbours either side are Eastern European. It was new for me—I'm used to living with people from my community but during lockdown we've had more time to chat. They have the same family emphasis and they bring my bin in.'

I think it's a really important reminder that Northern Ireland is much more diverse than it used to be—it isn't just two communities who hardly every talk to each other. Newcomers from outside, with different perspectives on the world, might yet play a really important part in how we make the transition towards a permanent peace in Northern Ireland, in whatever guise that takes.

In Wales too, newcomers often bring a new dynamism with them, which was strongly in evidence on Sunday evening when I joined Jane Hutt to share a meal with members of the former Ugandan Asian community who were chucked out of Uganda in 1972, having to leave behind their homes and their businesses, and making their new home in Wales. Not only are many of them playing absolutely crucial roles in our NHS, the purpose of the evening was in aid of an annual dinner for the Vale for Africa charity, to raise money for Tororo district, which is in the poorest part of Uganda. It's a really excellent example of a positive outcome from adverse circumstance. Similarly, the Women Against Pit Closures went on to do lots of absolutely brilliant work in the decade after the defeat of 1984-85.

But to come back to the community hubs, they do play such an important part in keeping communities together, because they belong to us all. They're paid for with our taxes, and so we really do need to make sure that amidst all the difficult decisions that have to be made in the future for local authorities, we continue to keep the hubs going, because they are really such an important part of the fabric of our communities. But we have to also prevent them getting set in aspic and caught up in just one little clique.

The third element of community resilience is a strong, collaborative community and voluntary sector. That is something we have in Cardiff in spades, even in some of our poorest communities. There's Plasnewydd community garden—an award-winning place for people to meet, both to cultivate food and flowers, but also a place to share some of the more sad aspects of their lives. Men's Sheds are also a wonderful space to bring together men, who traditionally have found it more difficult to express their fears and hopes or emotional distress. I know that my colleague Huw Irranca-Davies has played an important part in promoting Men's Sheds—

Would you take an intervention?

Yes, sure.

The intervention isn't on Men's Sheds per se. One of the interesting things from your very good contribution here, I have to say, is the need for diversity within this space, that in one community it might be a hub that does multiple things. Would you agree with me that the strength of this is having communities where there are a myriad of options for different parts of the community with diverse needs to come together? It could be Men's Sheds, it could be hen's sheds, it could be choirs, it could be knitters and crafters, or, as I have in my constituency, a group that calls themselves 'Stitch 'n Bitch'.

I absolutely agree. And, you know, people fall out as well, so occasionally people will not want to go back to community hub X, because they need to go somewhere else.

There are wonderful things being done by the voluntary sector, whether it's Rubicon Dance in my community, something called Rhythms Free Dance up in Cardiff North, which caters for people with learning difficulties—all free for those people with learning difficulties—or the Friends and Neighbours meetings that take place across Wales, certainly in my community, which is a place where people can go just to talk in a structured way. They also offer discussions for people who are English language learners, which is wonderful, both for improving their English as well as recounting where they've come from and how they feel about the world. There's a collaboration between Cardiff Pottery Workshops and Platfform, which was formerly Gofal, to enable people to work through their mental distress through their hands, and I think that's absolutely fantastic.

Above all, in the community I represent it is religious groups who have done the heavy lifting on the most important and worrying aspect of the cost-of-living crisis. There are certain religious communities who have just kept going with weekly foodbanks or pantries to serve the hungry and the starving. These cannot survive unless we get the help of better-off people who don't need to think about where the next meal is coming from. They simply will be overrun, because the poor are less able to give to these charities any longer, and therefore the rich and the better-off need to stand in solidarity with the other people who are going though so much difficulty in these tough times. I feel this is something that we all need to think about, in every aspect of the communities that we represent.

It's a pleasure to take part in this debate this afternoon. I thank Jenny Rathbone for tabling this important debate today, and I fully support the motion and will be voting in favour of the proposal tonight. And it's quite right that we should be doing all we can to support people in our communities who suffer with mental health problems. In my own constituency of the Vale of Clwyd, we have some fantastic facilities to support people, including Denbigh, Rhyl and Prestatyn Men's Sheds and Vale of Clwyd Mind, just to name a couple. But, there is always scope to do more and achieve ambitions that will have a positive impact on people's cognitive well-being. 

As my time as a Senedd Member steadily ploughs on, I'd like to take a brief opportunity, if I may, to talk about some of my own mental health struggles. Now, I want to assure people that I don't make these sorts of statements for fun or to get airtime, but I see it as important to share some information to help encourage people to indeed talk about their mental health struggles and some of the issues that we see too often in society. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder a few years ago and spent a brief time in hospital as I was suicidal and had a plan, which as anyone who knows a thing or two about this, knows that is not a healthy cocktail of events together. But the only reason I got in this mindset was due to my own ignorance in not dealing with what I knew was a problem for a sustained period of time. Like a lot of young men, I thought to myself, 'Just pull yourself together, go for a pint and it will be fine. Man up', and all those things—we know how it goes. I believed that for years and got into an unhealthy routine of trying to deal with problems in those closed ways of thinking that did me no favours. And eventually, it all caught up with me, hence the reason I ended up in the state I was. I had to take three months off work, had professionals visit my home daily and undertook a long programme of medication, talking therapies and treatment to get me back where I am today. And I can't thank the Hafod and north Denbighshire community mental health teams in Rhyl enough for the time that they invested in me to get well again. 

Now, I had to build myself back up again from scratch, and I'm a better person for doing so, but I was only able to do this thanks to a team of professionals, together with many protecting factors, including my wife and understanding family and friends. But not everyone has that luxury, which is why it's vital that we get the right infrastructure in place to ensure that nobody slips through the net and that anyone who is experiencing acute problems can feel safe in the knowledge that a system is in place to protect them against the problems that mental health can bring. 

I've been fairly brief and broad-brush about some of my personal issues, and I'd be fibbing to say that it's a case of problem solved—yes, I'm a lot better now, but I still have my wobbles from time to time, which set me back slightly. But what I try to do is learn from every bad episode and take lessons from each time I take a dip, and I ask myself, 'What happened there? What contributed to this episode? What can I best do to avoid this happening again?' And this works well, and it's my way of coping with things. And I've learned that being opaque about your problems does you no favours in the long run, and I get so much benefit and positivity out of being more open and hope that, by sharing some of my personal experiences, I can encourage everyone, and especially blokes, who are statistically more likely to hide their problems, into opening up, talking to the right people and getting the help and treatment that they need and deserve. Thank you. 

A heartfelt thanks to you, Gareth, for talking about your situation. It really is important, because talking about mental health is what we should all be doing, so thank you so much for that contribution. And I do thank Jenny as well for bringing this debate here today. It's a really important issue, particularly at this time. You talked about foodbanks and the access people need to have to food, but I want to touch on loneliness, because I feel that there is such an issue here in Wales and in our society around loneliness, which leads to people feeling so isolated in terms of both their mental health difficulties, but it can actually exacerbate it as well.

We know that the statistics in Wales are that 15 per cent of people in Wales say that they are lonely. And that is for different age groups, but actually what surprised me particularly was that the age group that was the highest was young people—16 to 24-year-olds were the group that was more likely to report that they felt lonely. There is also an issue in older age groups as well, particularly when people lose their lifelong partners. And I speak here personally, for when my father died, my mum suffered severely from loneliness, and additionally, the trauma that she had, I'm sure exacerbated her dementia, and we must really think about how, as a society, our communities can help those people who are lonely. We've all talked a little bit about the resources and places that we know in our own areas, and I know that, in my own home town of Hay-on-Wye, we have set up a weekly meal for people to come to, and actually, the biggest issue for them, it's not so much the food, it's about talking, and it's about having that social interaction. People who are particularly on their own are the older age group, who don't feel confident enough to go out, but are finding some solace in being able to talk to people.

So, I do thank you, Jenny, for the debate this afternoon. I think it is so important that we build up community resilience. I like to call it 'community mental health first aid', and I would like to see more accessible training, education, awareness raising for people who want to become mental health first aiders in our communities. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I'm glad also of the opportunity to speak on this motion today, which I supported and which Plaid Cymru will be supporting, and I would like to thank Jenny Rathbone for bringing this debate to the Senedd. As she said, it's extremely timely.

A person's social networks can have a significant impact on their health, both physical and mental, and studies have shown that a person's social relationships are as important a factor as obesity, smoking or excessive alcohol consumption when it comes to predicting mortality rates. It's a factor in recovery from illness, and where there's a lack of social support, where there is social deprivation and isolation, there is a direct correlation with poor health outcomes, damaging behaviours and mental health problems. Indeed, many studies point to healthy and positive social relationships are actually more important for people's health than factors such as smoking or obesity on mortality. Evidence on quitting smoking, for example, shows that the biggest motivator is a positive life event, and having a positive support network, ensuring a relationally healthy environment, is thus more successful as a public policy tool than using shame or coercion.

Although multifaceted and complex, it is undeniable that our well-being as a society is inextricably linked to social cohesion and interaction, and the 'Together Through Tough Times' report makes clear how the strength of communities, their resources and resilience creates these positive impacts for mental health. And I have seen in my own region how those local community hubs, communal spaces and groups, have helped enrich and empower, fostering empathy and co-operation, forging connections and building confidence, and I'm sure that we can all think of examples in our communities. I'm thinking of the tremendous work of local area co-ordinators, those voluntary organisations—large and small—and community groups who do so much to provide social opportunities of all kinds. And as you mentioned, Huw Irranca-Davies, that variety is key, and the Mind Cymru report points out many different types of people in different types of circumstances need different kinds of access and opportunities and facilities that can help them address mental health problems, and many of the issues that can cause or exacerbate them.

It also crucially underlines the barriers, which we heard about from Jenny, that can prevent different groups from being able to benefit from being part of social networks, and I'm sure we're all also acutely aware that the cost-of-living crisis and the pressures on public finances are bearing down on the structures that help support social capital and safeguard community assets. Just as we would naturally object to hospital closures, any threat to libraries, community halls, art centres and sporting facilities should be similarly resisted. One of my first campaigns that I fought in my community was against cuts that threatened the future of my local community arts centre in Pontardawe, because I knew that the groups that use that space were set to lose a lot more than somewhere to see the pantomime or a concert. Men's Sheds should be seen as crucial a facility as men's health clinics; coffee mornings as important as any formal advice centres.

There can be no doubt that poverty and economic neglect, as well as deliberate ideology, have increased the threats to such beneficial social activity. The importance of co-operation and of our shared humanity is also lost when individualism is politically elevated over shared values, and certain groups are denigrated and scapegoated. Government must thus show that it values people, shares their concerns—

Sioned, will you take an intervention?

Sorry, you referred to Men's Sheds. One of the sheds, which was named earlier, I've visited a number of times, and it turns out that a lot of the men there have been through the prison system or in the care system, and they've all been labelled with mental health conditions, but, some years ago, I was invited as a guest to the opening of their autism shed, because it turned out that a significant proportion of these people were neurodiverse. So, do you agree that that emphasises the need for early intervention, assessment and support so that people don't find themselves on that road to hell, where so many of them find themselves because of conditions they were born with?

Definitely. All these things are preventative, aren't they, and I think that is shown very clearly in the report.

As I was saying, Government must show that it values people and shares their concerns, hears their perspectives and works to create a society where people feel like they belong to foster a healthy social environment so as to avoid deepening the causes of poor mental health, which, of course, in turn, puts pressure, even more pressure, on public services. So, Government can directly foster the cohesion that creates resilience by supporting volunteering, which is proven to be beneficial for health and well-being and can reduce social isolation and exclusion. Formal and informal community groups can be supported to provide spaces for interaction and form a large part of the holistic and preventative approach to mental health and well-being that is needed now in this time of acute economic pressure more than ever.

The link between viable communities and mental health has been comprehensively foregrounded by the mental health charity Platfform Cymru, who emphasise the importance of working with communities who want to create a greater sense of connection, ownership and well-being in the places they live. That's why, as the motion calls for, Welsh Government should protect, invest in and recognise the role that community assets and networks play in creating the co-operative, inclusive and caring communities that could help underpin a successful mental health strategy. I urge you all to support the motion.

I call on the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being. Lynne Neagle.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I thank Jenny Rathbone for tabling this debate today? We know that our health and well-being are not determined by access to healthcare services alone, but by a whole host of social, economic and environmental considerations. The COVID-19 pandemic has had a profound impact. The direct health impacts of COVID and long COVID, the changes to the way that we work and the disruption to education have all contributed to increasing levels of anxiety for both ourselves and for our families.

In particular, the pandemic shone a light on the public health impact of loneliness and social isolation. Tackling this is a national priority through our connected communities strategy, and one I feel very strongly about. And now, just as people are starting to pick themselves up after the pandemic, we are hit with an unprecedented cost-of-living crisis. This will undoubtedly impact on the mental health of so many people. One of the lessons from the pandemic is the vital role of our relationships and connections with others, whether they be our loved ones, friends or our community, they are more important than ever. This is why I'm such a passionate advocate for the power of community connection to support our well-being. The role of positive relationships and connections, be that the community we live in or a community based around shared interests and values are crucial in supporting our well-being. A strong community can be a powerful, protective factor in people's lives, especially when times are tough.

I am proud that the Welsh Government recognises this and has put in place a number of commitments to build stronger, more resilient communities in Wales. Our programme for government commitment to develop a national framework for social prescribing is progressing, and I recently consulted on a suitable model for social prescribing across Wales. Our social prescribing framework underlines the importance of community assets and the vital role they play in supporting well-being.

The Welsh Government has also developed a wide array of policies to support communities. In July, we set out our commitment to a communities policy to be developed in Wales that will promote better working between Welsh Government, external partners, including the voluntary and community sector, and the communities they serve. We are committed to working co-productively with all partners at a local level to enable local communities to become more empowered, connected and thriving, and ultimately more resilient.

Thank you for taking an intervention. The motion talks about community assets and the importance of community assets, and you've mentioned it yourself and the importance to the Government. We know that a lot of community assets are being lost, like chapels and cinemas and pubs, and we know that the best way for communities is to take control of those assets and to empower communities properly by giving them the opportunity to control them. But the Welsh Government and the Labour Government have promised this since 2007, saying that he would legislate to empower communities and allow communities to take control of community assets, but still that legislation isn't there. Do you not agree that one of the best things that you could do is to introduce legislation to empower communities and allow communities to take control of those assets?

Well, it's funny you should say that, because I was just coming on to community assets. I also recognise the importance of community assets. Our long-running communities facilities programme and our new and innovative community assets loan fund are just some of the ways we recognise and support ongoing development of infrastructure for community hubs, working with community partners to strengthen resilience in communities. We also aim to improve co-location of public services, including the commitment to develop 50 local community hubs to co-locate front-line health services as well as investing in integrated health and social care centres.

'Together Through Tough Times' highlights the importance of an open-door culture for mental health. Well, here in Wales, the creation of a 'no wrong door' approach to mental health is already a key programme for government commitment. We have significantly increased investment in our tiers 0 and 1 support to provide easy access to mental health support without the need for a referral, and we are making good progress with our roll-out of the 24/7 111 'press 2 for mental health' in Wales, with Hywel Dda University Health Board our first health board to go live with the service.

We’ve also strengthened our approach to suicide prevention and recently established a cross-Government suicide strategic prevention group. 'Talk to me 2', our suicide prevention strategy, recognises that community connection helps strengthen protection against suicide. Earlier this year, we also launched the real-time suicide surveillance system—[Interruption.] I’m assuming my time will be added to.

I will give you extra time to cover these interventions.

I'll be as brief as I can, because there's a lot of interest in this. You referred to assets and then community connections. Do you recognise and support the concept and delivery of asset-based community development, which is about unlocking the strengths of individuals within their communities to empower them, remove the barriers they encounter and enable them to contribute to building community resilience in their own area?

Thank you, Mark. Clearly, empowering communities is a key part of what we're doing and I very much support us taking a strength-based approach to that work. 

As I said, we also launched the real-time suicide surveillance system, which will provide earlier access to information to help inform future prevention work, but, vitally, ensure appropriate support for those bereaved by suicide who we know are at increased risk of dying by suicide.

And I was particularly pleased that the 'Together Through Tough Times' research in Wales focused on young people and highlighted the key role of schools and colleges. We in Welsh Government wholeheartedly agree. That's why we're taking forward our whole-school approach to mental health in Wales. In March 2021, we published statutory guidance on the whole-school approach. The guidance is aimed at ensuring consistency in schools' approaches to the emotional and mental health of their learners to enable schools to put in place strategies to build on their strengths and address any weaknesses. The guidance is rooted in the value of strong relationships and connectedness that comes through very clearly in the report we're discussing today and is underpinned by over £43 million from Welsh Government budgets over the three years. And this is in addition to our groundbreaking new Curriculum for Wales, which has the health and well-being area of learning and experience at its very centre.

Our community-focused schools programme and capital investment aims to make the school site more accessible and open to the local community, respond to the needs of that community, build strong partnerships with families and collaborate effectively with other services. And we are very proud of our NEST framework, which aims to ensure a whole-system approach for developing mental health, well-being and support services for babies, children, young people, parents, carers and their families. The framework recognises the importance of safe and supportive communities for families to live, play and socialise in.

Finally, our mental health strategy, 'Together for Mental Health', takes a cross-Government and multi-agency approach to improve mental health. A key driver of our strategy is to work to improve and protect it. The role of the community and wider determinants of good mental health are already embedded as part of this approach. We are reaching the end of our 10-year strategy, and an independent evaluation of our progress will be published in due course. The work to develop our new strategy has already begun, and I intend to consult on it next year. My officials are developing an engagement plan to inform the new strategy, but we know that the role of communities in supporting well-being, social connections and increasing resilience will be a key focus. The recommendations and content of the 'Together Through Tough Times' report, I'm pleased to say, will help us in informing our thinking around the development of the future strategy. 

And can I just conclude, Deputy Presiding Officer, by thanking Gareth Davies for speaking out about his own mental health today? I recognise how difficult it is to talk about that in this Chamber, but it is vital in tackling stigma, and your contribution today will help and inspire many others. Diolch.

I call on Jenny Rathbone to reply to the debate.

I thank all Members for their contributions and particularly Gareth Davies for having the courage to speak out, because it is your bravery and your preparedness to share your story that gives other people who are going through similar experiences the hope that they too can recover and then resume normal life. The way the way you described how you learn from every episode and setback in order to strengthen your emotional resilience is really outstanding, so thank you very much indeed for that. 

Jane Dodds spoke about loneliness, and I absolutely agree that that is a potential killer. It is one of the groups that I didn't talk about in my opening remarks: those who are living in poverty. That is one of the isolators, as well as people who are newcomers, or people from ethnic minorities. If you live in poverty, you are constantly thinking, 'Do I dare take my children to this or that activity? Will I be embarrassed because I'm asked to contribute in some way or another financially?' So, we really have to think so hard about this in the current situation. But I absolutely agree with you that loneliness is one of the biggest factors that undermine people's health and well-being, and Sioned equally spoke about that as well.

Jane, you also spoke about community mental health first aid—. Sorry, did you say something? No. I beg your pardon. And the importance of bonding social capital of saving important community assets, like the Pontardawe community arts centre, which I'm sure is a much-loved place. Because, once they're gone, it's really, really difficult to get them back again. That's why, if we haven't got the resources to run something in the short term, we need to mothball and make sure that we've still got them there for the future. But, hopefully, we don't have to do that. We may have to call on volunteers to run them for us, but we really do need to keep our community centres going, because that is where people combat loneliness. Because just meeting somebody once, in one context, enables you, then, to say 'hello' to them when you meet them in the shop or on the bus, and that, then, can lead to a deepening of relationships and a, 'Oh, I haven't so-and-so recently; I'll just pop around and see whether they're okay.' Those are really the most important things about combating loneliness. 

Mark Isherwood, in your intervention, you very importantly spoke about autism as a way—. Autistic people can become so lonely and isolated, particularly if, as adults, their parents move on and are no longer available to support them. I saw a wonderful programme—I think it was on S4C—about a woman in Gloucestershire who had converted the farm that she had inherited from her parents into a social enterprise farm to enable young people to go to work, despite their autism, supported by other people. That is such a good example of how everybody can work, so long as we give them the right context. It’s down to the community at large to reach out to people who have particular disabilities, and ensure that we are not discriminating against them because we simply haven’t thought about it.

So, Lynne Neagle, you're such a good ambassador for mental health; I feel confident that we're in good hands in terms of keeping this flag flying. I think that the important work that the Government is doing around a whole-school approach to mental health is absolutely crucial. Mabon, you reminded us in a timely fashion about the importance of community asset transfers, which exist in other parts of the UK. At the moment, the Welsh Government has got a different approach, but we need to keep hold of that one.

Distressed people don’t learn well, and, unfortunately, they often end up with enduring mental health issues, or in the criminal justice system. So, there’s a real bonus in addressing these problems at an early time. Lastly, I just want to end by saying that Christmas is the worst time for poor people. It’s supposed to be a happy time. Actually, it’s a terrible time if you're poor. I just wanted to end by reading out something that a man from Glasgow said:

'At the moment…I can’t go to my friend’s house like I would do every Christmas. My neighbour knows that and has invited me to spend Christmas with her and her family. During tough times, the people around you can be there for you if you need.'

So, we all need to think about who in our community is going to have a rubbish Christmas, and how we can help them to have a better Christmas as a result.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. Therefore, I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.