8. Debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee Report: The provision of sites for Gypsy, Roma and Travellers

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:15 pm on 23 November 2022.

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Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:15, 23 November 2022

Those local authorities that have taken the lead are the exemplar authorities, but all authorities should be exemplar. There is more to do to bring others up to the level of those who have made that positive progress, and I do think that's why our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' has added new impetus to address this challenge. As well as embedding a general anti-racist culture within public administration in Wales, we've committed to several actions specific to these communities, including guidance for schools, creating a national network of transit provision—and I accepted the recommendation on transit provision; that came through so strongly in your inquiry, and as you know, in my response, I said,

'The certification of a national network of transit provision to facilitate travelling life, with consideration for negotiated stopping, as appropriate, is one of the specific actions now being taken forward under the Anti-Racist Wales Action Plan.'

Also, piloting new mechanisms for permanent provision, providing learning and development support to local authority elected members on Gypsy and Traveller communities' culture, needs and strengths. And, Carolyn Thomas, you drew this out, having been a councillor—many former councillors here in this Chamber—you remember that this has got to be a different way of doing training, hasn't it, so that we actually learn from the Gypsy, Traveller and Roma communities and people themselves.

Also, a pilot programme to provide independent advice to those seeking to develop private sites. There was a lot of discussion about that, and it is important that that is independent, so that those private sites could be developed. Yes, and indeed, as you called for, a review of current funding policy. If it's not, why isn't it achieving the outcomes that we want? A revision of our sites guidance and a national training programme for the housing options team and the appointment of leads in each authority: when there are leads in authorities, we know that it makes a huge difference, and I'll just comment on one example in a moment.

So, we do have the legislation; we have the guidance, the powers of direction, and we now have this strengthened policy route to take forward with the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. And it's very clear that we have a renewed focus that now must be on how local authorities deliver, and they've got to be the ones who deliver with our backing and our challenge. And I will be meeting with lead local authority members, cabinet members, to discuss this report with them. This is not just a report for us, is it? It's a report particularly for our partners in local government. Local authorities have come under the spotlight, and that's been reflected here today by Members' contributions. Much of the evidence heard by the committee was a lack of action, and amongst some, it was also attributed to a lack of political will; that resistance, as Jenny Rathbone has said. And I think the actions set out in our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' acknowledge and address this, but we do want to publicly recognise examples of what is possible.

So, when I went to visit a site recently in Merthyr, there was a community hall beside the site, and in that community hall, they had a number of services, including boxing sessions for the young people, Citizens Advice, Mudiad Ysgolion Meithrin working on site with children, and also the site was being redeveloped in partnership with all the community having a say in design, in terms of future prospects—very much a place that felt like a community in itself. And this is what we want to see, and I do commend the Merthyr authority for working to achieve that. Real commitment was shown. Again, lead officers have such a key role, and councillors should be at the forefront. That dedicated lead officer was also very keen to work with other authorities, to work on a regional basis, which very much picks up recommendation 2 on the transitory provision.

So, through our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', we do seek to encourage, challenge, and support authorities to change the narrative around this community and deliver better outcomes. We do have the powers to direct, but I still think that we can achieve a lot through support and guidance, but I will be clear—Mabon challenged me again today, and I remember, I made that commitment that, where our partnership with local government does not succeed, we will intervene directly as necessary.

But, finally, I want to say that running through the core of our approach is engagement with the voice of the community itself, and this is particularly true and reflected in the committee's recommendations 9, 16 and 21 regarding site guidance, accommodation assessments and enforcement of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022. All of this can only be progressed by not only listening to, but involving those with lived experience. Can I thank the Local Government and Housing Committee for the way that you carried out this inquiry, the way that you went out and met with Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people and communities? So, yes, we accept all the recommendations without reservation. We're grateful for the Local Government and Housing Committee's commitment to support in improving the needs and lives of our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people and communities in Wales. This is about, actually, how we engage with our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities.

We have committed dedicated funding for over a decade to support improved outcomes for Gypsy, Roma and Traveller learners. And I think it's very important that Tom Hendry, who represented the Welsh Romani Gypsy community on Holocaust Memorial Day 2021—and many of you will remember that—is one of the community mentors who actually helped us to deliver the anti-racist Wales equality action plan. Diolch yn fawr. Thank you for your inquiry.