8. Debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee Report: The provision of sites for Gypsy, Roma and Travellers

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:22 pm on 23 November 2022.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of John Griffiths John Griffiths Labour 5:22, 23 November 2022

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd dros dro. May I thank everybody who contributed to what I think is a very important debate today? I think there seems to be a common acceptance that Wales is not in the position that it should be in with regard to the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller community. We like to think of ourselves as a country that is very strong on human rights, and that's reflected in a lot of things that, first of all the Assembly and now the Senedd has done over the course of devolution. We've worked very closely with our ethnic minority communities in Wales on very many issues.

But, as many contributors to this debate have said, and as our report makes clear, there seems to be a real gap when it comes to the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller community. They face discrimination, a lack of understanding, prejudice on a level and with a history that marks them out, I think, as being treated differently to others in Wales. We know, don't we, that it's the mark of a civilised society to understand difference, to accommodate difference, to support difference, so that those with an alternative lifestyle are able to lead that alternative lifestyle. For this community, over an awful long time, we've seen that ability to lead the lifestyle they wish to lead in accordance with their history and their culture eroded, undermined and not supported. We've seen their traditional stopping places disappear with creeping urbanisation, industrialisation, commercial development, and they haven't been replaced with adequate, culturally appropriate sites—permanent site or transit sites, or indeed, more informal stopping places. So, it really is, as we've heard, as our report demonstrates and as the debate today has reflected, a real gap in policy and practice in Wales. It is a stain, I think, on our country.

So, we really do need to take action, I think, along the lines in our report and, as the Minister has stated, we need that political will at a Welsh Government level, at a local authority level, and in service providers, as Jenny Rathbone mentioned. And I'd like to thank Jenny, because I know that she's long championed these communities in her work and in her previous chairing of an all-party group. So, thank you very much for your work on this, Jenny, and thanks very much to the committee members and their contributions today.

I think, given the background that I've outlined and what I think we all accept exists, that gap between the framework that exists—the legislative, regulatory and guidance framework—and what actually happens on the ground, we, obviously, very obviously, need to see action. We know that there's a great deal of cynicism, I think, borne of bitter experience in our communities here in Wales. They'll look at this report, they'll listen to this debate, they'll hear the commitment of Welsh Government and they'll say, 'What's going to count is delivery and implementation'—what actually happens on the ground in Wales, through our local authorities, through other service providers, through that leadership and political will of Welsh Government. That will be the acid test. Can we finally deliver for these communities? Will there finally be proper engagement and co-production right across Wales in terms of site provision, transit, pitches, refurbishment and repair of existing sites? All of that is not seeing adequate engagement, consultation and co-production at the moment. There is some good practice, as the Minister stated, but it's not consistent; it's not right across Wales. There is so much that needs to be done on this, and we rely now, I think, on Welsh Government to show a clear lead, to make sure that acceptance of the recommendations is followed up with effective leadership and delivery on the ground. Jenny said that this matter should come back to Plenary, and I'm sure it will, and also, of course, it will come back to our committee, and we will keep a very strong watching brief on whether we do see that necessary action on the ground.