Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:15 pm on 29 November 2022.
I am, however, happy to accept recommendation 4. We accept in principle recommendation 7 and accept 8. Regarding the membership of the council, I share the committee's view that membership should be broad and representative. Work has already started with social partners to ensure that the nomination process of the social partnership council reflects this, and I will update the committee on the outcome of that work ahead of Stage 2.
Recommendation 9 relates to the social partnership duty in section 16 of the Bill. The committee's view is that more is needed in terms of enforcement or compliance with this duty. The drafting of this recommendation asks that I explain the Government's position on these matters, and I'm happy to do so again today. I set out in evidence to the committee that the section 16 duty requires public bodies to seek rather than to achieve consensus or compromise with their recognised trade unions or their staff representatives in setting their well-being objectives. If, for whatever reason, it is not possible to reach agreement despite best efforts, the duty to seek consensus or compromise will nonetheless have been discharged. There would, in effect, be nothing to mediate between the two parties involved.
Where there may be concerns about how a public body goes about discharging its statutory functions, the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales has powers to investigate complaints against public bodies, including complaints of maladministration, and the Auditor General for Wales's role includes examining how public bodies manage and spend public money, including how they achieve value in the delivery of public services. Ultimately, the actions of public bodies may be challenged in the courts.
Recommendations 11, 12 and 21 refer to the inter-relationship between the Bill and the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the role of the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales. A proposed amendment to the 2015 Act, which replaces the reference to 'decent work' with 'fair work', will not change either the remit or functions of the commissioner, and there is no need for us to amend our Bill to duplicate the duty that public bodies have under the WFG Act to maximise their contribution to all well-being goals in the exercise of their functions, which already includes the globally responsible Wales well-being goal. For these reasons, we do not accept recommendations 11 or 12.
On recommendation 21, I'm happy to confirm that we will provide more detail on how procurement investigations will interact with existing powers held by the future generations commissioner, although this will not be possible until the UK Government's procurement reforms are finalised.
Recommendation 13 asks the Welsh Government to hold discussions with the Office for National Statistics and the Charity Commission to determine whether making further education and higher education institutions and registered social landlords subject to the socially responsible public procurement duty would negatively impact on their national accounting status and/or charitable status, with a view to bringing them within the scope of the Bill should this not be the case. I accept this recommendation. Further discussions will be held, though I should add that there are other factors, including that some of these bodies may operate outside of Wales, that also influence the discussion.
Turning to recommendation 15, asking that we place a duty on Welsh Ministers to set targets for the proportion of procurement spend spent in Wales and spent with specific types of suppliers, such as small and medium-sized enterprises or social enterprises, the Government accepts the recommendation in principle and we agree with the premise that we should be using public procurement to support the Welsh economy and this could be achieved through setting targets, as reflected in the co-operation agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru. I will continue to hold further discussions with partners in relation to this recommendation, and update the committee ahead of Stage 2.
Recommendations 16 to 19 deal with the socially responsible public procurement part of the Bill. The Government accepts all of these recommendations, subject to the further discussions relating to recommendation 15, and will make the necessary amendments to the Bill as well as the explanatory memorandum and relevant guidance.
I'm afraid I cannot accept recommendation 22 and 23 relating to the procurement investigation clauses, as it would not be appropriate to require Welsh Ministers to consult the auditor general before the announcement of every investigation. Nor will I be bringing forward amendments at Stage 2 detailing the criteria that would trigger an investigation under section 41 on the face of the Bill. This would be far too restrictive. A non-exhaustive list of criteria will be set out in the guidance, which is the appropriate place for it.
Recommendations 25 and 26 ask us to do further work to refine the costs set out in the regulatory impact assessment for the Bill. I accept these recommendations. That work is already under way, and a revised RIA will be laid ahead of Stage 3.
The final two recommendations from the Equality and Social Justice Committee relate to the previous shadow social partnership council. Whilst I'm not in a position to agree to the publication of all of the papers, as suggested by the committee in recommendation 27, I do accept recommendation 28 in principle, and will ensure that the committee is provided with a summary report, which I hope Members will find helpful.
Turning now to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee report, the first of its recommendations is that a signpost to the definition of 'decisions of a strategic nature' that resides in guidance made under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 be added to the Bill. The Government does not consider it appropriate to include within the Bill's interpretation section a definition that is set out elsewhere only in statutory guidance. The guidance referred to is issued under a separate power in another Act of a specific purpose, which may not align with the duties in the Bill. The Bill provides the Welsh Ministers to issue guidance to public bodies on the operation of the social partnership duty, and that is the appropriate way in which to deal with matters like this, so we are not able to accept recommendation 1.
I accept recommendations 2, 4 and 5 and will ensure that the necessary changes are made to the Bill and the guidance. We do not accept recommendation 6, which asked that we make a draft version of the outsourcing and workforce code available before Stage 3. Our intention is that the code be developed in social partnership and in consultation with stakeholders. We will therefore engage these groups, including public bodies, providers of services and unions from the outset, rather than publishing a draft, then consulting on it.
Recommendations 3, 7 and 8 all question the choice of procedure we have proposed for making the code and the regulations. In relation to the outsourcing and workforce code, as I mentioned earlier in relation to the ESJ Committee's recommendation 24, the issuing of such guidance is a function of the Welsh Ministers, which, for reasons outlined above, will be subject to full consultation with stakeholders, which I consider will give an appropriate opportunity for input by those who are closest to the subject matter of the code, and so I do not intend to amend the Bill to make the code subject to the negative procedure. Recommendations 7 and 8 relate to the regulations we are bringing forward under section 38 of the Bill. We are confident that we have applied the correct approach in relation to each, and so do not intend to support these recommendations. However, I will write to the committee to provide more detail on this.
Finally, I wish to apologise to the committee for an errant reference to a convention in my letter of 15 October. This was picked up in the committee report under recommendation 9, and I wish to put on the record that this reference was included in error and acknowledge that no such convention exists.
Moving on to the Finance Committee report, I am pleased to accept all the committee's recommendations, other than 3 and 9. The Government will, as mentioned earlier, make a revised version of the RIA available in good time ahead of Stage 3. The two recommendations I am unable to accept ask for a level of detail on the effects of the socially responsible procurement provisions that is not realistically achievable in the time between now and Stage 3. There is a limit to what is possible, in terms of analysis and cost estimates, prior to any new arrangements coming into force and then having sufficient time to bed in. So, I hope the committee will understand that, whilst of course I appreciate the spirit in which these recommendations were put forward, and put on record my assurance that every effort will be made to improve those elements of the RIA that can be made more accurate between now and Stage 3, ultimately, exercises such as these can only ever provide us with best estimates of costs and benefits.
In closing, Llywydd, I want to again thank all Members of the Senedd and Commission staff who have engaged so constructively with the legislation. I look forward to hearing from the Chairs of the scrutiny committees, from other Members from across the Siambr, and to continue to work collaboratively and constructively on the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill.