3. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with Cardiff Council regarding the future of St David's Hall? OQ58805

I thank the Member for the question, Llywydd. The future of the venue is an issue for Cardiff Council. Any engagement with the Welsh Government will be undertaken through the Arts Council of Wales, and the local authority is expected to meet the council to discuss the future of the hall on Thursday this week.

Thank you, First Minister. I know from your appearance on Beti a'i Phobol that you are very musical yourself. I also know, having been in university with the leader of Cardiff Council, that he's a talented musician too. As you will know as a musician, musical education and experiences are crucially important, and, as a national concert hall for Wales, St David's Hall has provided excellent opportunities for schoolchildren across the years. I can say myself, through Urdd Gobaith Cymru and the school, that I was able to perform on the stage of St David's Hall. So, First Minister, are you concerned that if Live Nation Inc from Beverley Hills were to take control of St David's Hall that the children of Wales from that point onwards wouldn't have the same experiences? Thank you.  

I think it's too early to be concerned, Llywydd, because we don't know enough details. I've had an opportunity today to speak to the council leader here in Cardiff, and I'm sure that he's aware of every point that Rhys ab Owen has raised. So, they are doing the work with not just one company but with more than one company that has shown an interest in collaborating with the council on the future of St David's Hall. I know that the council leader has invited every local Senedd Member to meet him to hear about those discussions, and I'm sure, after having the opportunity to speak to Huw Thomas, that he is determined, if there is any agreement on the future, to safeguard not just what the schools do at present in the hall, but community use in its entirety of a very important resource for the lives of people who live in the capital city.  

First Minister, Cardiff Council have cited a maintenance backlog to the tune of £55 million as a motivating factor behind recent soundings to sell St David's Hall in Cardiff. The systematic failure to provide adequate ongoing maintenance now means that the venue, which hosts cultural and civic occasions, as my colleague Rhys mentioned, that add to Cardiff's prestige as a capital city is looking to change hands to a company that has declared their desire to cease holding these types of events. This potential sale of St David's Hall brings to the forefront issues about how responsible the local authority should be in the management of community assets and community buildings, and how accountable they should be when they've failed to properly maintain and look after them.

First Minister, I would argue that £55 million-worth of maintenance work is very unlikely to have been accrued over the last three years since the start of the COVID pandemic, and I do not believe that this should be made the reasoning behind the backlog. Fifty-five million pounds-worth of maintenance happens over decades of neglect, and I therefore believe that, if Cardiff Council had acted responsibly in carrying out proper scheduled maintenance, they would not be looking to sell St David's Hall. With this in mind, First Minister, what assessment has this Government made alongside local authorities to understand whether or not those responsible for maintaining cultural and community assets are doing all that they can to properly maintain them? Thank you. 

Llywydd, I've no doubt the Member will make those points to the proper authority, which in this case is Cardiff Council itself. He's right—Cardiff Council is responsible for it and is answerable to its local population, and Cardiff Council won a significant endorsement from the people here in Cardiff in only May of this year. I will just add only this, Llywydd, that the leader of the council was very clear in his conversation with me today that there is no suggestion in any of the discussions that he is holding that the council would cease to be owner of the freehold of St David's Hall. 

Good afternoon, First Minister. I don't live in Cardiff, but, as a child and a young person living and brought up in north Wales, I attended many concerts at St David's Hall, and some of those, I have to say, on my own, as I could often not find somebody to come with me to some of those events. I won't give you the list of those concerts that I went to, but they were very unique, shall we say. St David's Hall is seen as a national venue, and I've heard what you've said, and it's comforting to hear that you share my view that St David's Hall should remain within public hands. It is indeed something that we across Wales want to see remaining in public hands, ensuring that it continues to deliver on that musical heritage that it has. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Well, Llywydd, I certainly agree that the hall has had an exceptional 40-year history. Seeing this question, I was reminded of a very early visit I made to the hall, back at the very start of its existence, where I attended a concert of music by Delius, conducted by Eric Fenby, who, as a young man, had written down the music as Delius composed it. Delius was blind in later life, and as a young man, Fenby had been his amanuensis, as it's called, and, very much later in his life, there he was in St David's Hall, conducting the music that he himself had written down. It was utterly memorable at the time; it remains with me ever since. So, I absolutely recognise the point that the Member has made about that history.

Cardiff Council will go on, I am sure, securing the public interest in whatever arrangement it makes for the future of the hall. Nobody, though, should believe that 12 years of austerity, despite everything that this Chamber has done to try to protect the budgets of local authorities, does not have a very significant impact on the ability of local authorities right across Wales to deliver services in the way that they may prefer to choose them. They have to find other ways, creative ways, sometimes, of making sure that the public interest, and there is a very clear public interest in making sure that St David's Hall continues to be a successful music venture—to find ways in which that can be made to happen.

I put my name down to follow up on this question without realising how many people would also be doing the same, but I would like to add my voice. I've been contacted by a constituent, who plays regularly in an orchestra at St David's Hall. I was going to say 'a cross-party voice', but it's disappointing to hear Joel James making a party political attack on Cardiff Council, since, as you've already said, the austerity agenda has been very significantly impacting the ability of local authorities to sustain these kinds of venues since 2010. That said, the constituent who contacted me wanted to emphasise his concern that a private operator might not see the same kind of cultural importance of the diversity that is currently presented at St David's Hall and would like that to continue, and would like that to be communicated to Cardiff Council.

Well, I thank Hefin David for that. The points he makes are points that I know the local authority itself has heard and will take very seriously. However the future of the hall is to be designed, the local authority will want to secure its continuing viability, not just for the sorts of very popular events that happen there, but that wider range of youth events, community events, classical music events, international events, such as the International Concert Series and the Cardiff Singer of the World competition. And challenging as it is to sustain public services at a time of sharply reducing budgets, I know that those considerations will be very actively in the local authority's mind.