8. Statement by the Minister for Social Justice: International Day of Disabled Persons

– in the Senedd at 4:36 pm on 29 November 2022.

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Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 4:36, 29 November 2022

(Translated)

Item 8 this afternoon is a statement by the Minister for Social Justice on the international day of disabled persons. I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt. 

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The international day of disabled people falls every year on 3 December. The Welsh Government is very aware of the importance of marking this day, as it helps us highlight just how many people are impacted by disability-based discrimination.

Since its launch by the United Nations in 1992, right across the world, this day has represented a crucial step towards the advancement of equality for disabled people and serves as a reminder for us to work together to champion fundamental human rights, and the need for the full liberation of disabled people.

This year, the theme is transformative solutions for inclusive development: the role of innovation in fuelling an accessible and equitable world. Adaptive and assistive technology can offer many solutions to making both the working and social environment accessible to all. Many of us will be familiar with some of these technologies, and I was particularly pleased to find that the latest version of our word processing software now includes both text-to-speech and speech-to-text functionality—options that were previously very expensive. 

All representative democracies must fully reflect all the communities they serve, and we know that disabled people are hugely under-represented in all elected bodies across Wales. Disabled people can face much higher costs when running for office, which is why we have created the access to elected office fund. This fund can be used to purchase adaptive and assistive specialist equipment and software and has already made a material difference to many people who ran in the last local elections.

I am very pleased to attend the Dewis Centre for Independent Living event in Cardiff on Thursday, 1 December with my colleague Julie Morgan, Deputy Minister for Social Services. Dewis is an organisation that is controlled by disabled people. It provides crucial support to disabled people who receive direct payments. At their event, we will speak about the vital importance of embedding the social model of disability in all areas of our society and widening the use of direct payments.

Welsh Government is a staunch advocate of people’s right to control their own lives, and for many disabled people, receiving direct payments can be crucial to achieving this goal. It is critical that people who are offered direct payments are fully aware of their benefits and the support they can receive to make sure they work. In Wales, we are resolved to improving the take-up of direct payments and we are committed to identifying and removing all the barriers that are limiting their use.

In our programme for government, we have committed to improving the continuing healthcare and direct payments interface. Currently, a person receiving community healthcare in Wales cannot choose to receive direct payments to enable them to plan to meet their own social and healthcare needs. We're committed to changing this and we have recently held a consultation that proposed several changes to primary legislation in relation to social care and continuing NHS healthcare in Wales, and we will be reporting back in due course.

The Welsh Government has always supported disabled people, and as the Minister with responsibility for social justice, I am keenly aware there is still much to be done. In 2019, we produced a framework for independent living, but there is still a long way to go. We know that many disabled people are still being prevented from making basic decisions about their own lives, such as who assists them with personal care, and this is wholly unacceptable.

The COVID tragedy, which affected so many disabled people, led us to commissioning the 'Locked out: liberating disabled people's lives and rights in Wales beyond COVID-19' report. This report starkly set out how disabled people were often placed in a much more precarious position during the pandemic, and how these socioeconomic-based situations contributed to 68 per cent of COVID deaths being amongst our disabled community. As a result of this report, we established the disability rights taskforce, and I'm pleased to advise that the taskforce and all its working groups are meeting regularly, and are developing solutions to challenge the structural, physical and attitudinal barriers that disabled people face. The Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru have a shared determination to strengthen the rights of disabled people and to tackle the inequalities they continue to face and, together, we will ensure the success of the disability rights taskforce.

Promoting and embedding the social model of disability, in both Welsh Government and public bodies across Wales, is a firm priority of this Government. Through helping decision makers to understand their part in removing the obstacles that disabled people face, real change can take place. Working in co-production with the taskforce, we've commissioned Disability Wales, who are now delivering exciting and innovative training events, which are already making a difference.

Disabled people have a right to expect Welsh Government and all Welsh public bodies to model this change through their own behaviours. Disabled people often see disability-based discrimination not taken as seriously as other forms of prejudice. This must change. We should always call out discrimination, stand up against unacceptable practices, and help ensure that the voices of disabled people are heard. We're taking action by providing leadership and modelling behaviours that disabled people have a right to expect from organisations and individuals across Wales.

We have some way to go before we can state that disabled people have been liberated from the oppression that limits opportunities at every turn. And I can assure you that Welsh Government is fully committing to achieve this crucial goal. I'd like to end by thanking the disability equality forum, the disability rights taskforce, and its working group members, for their continued tenacity and commitment to disability rights. Diolch yn fawr.

Photo of Altaf Hussain Altaf Hussain Conservative 4:42, 29 November 2022

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. It is a pleasure to recognise the importance of the international day of disabled people and the continued efforts of all those who work, day after day, to promote, defend and advance the rights of people who live with disabilities. A year ago, we had this statement, as we always do, and, in that discussion last year, I asked the Minister what has changed for the better and what she has done to improve the lives of disabled people over the past 12 months. Could she say so now?

I also asked if the Minister would review the effectiveness of the legislative protections afforded to disabled people in Wales, and I would ask her to consider this considering the experiences of blind people in Wales. Recently I met with campaigners to back the Royal National Institute of Blind People work to highlight the rights for guide dogs to enter shops, cafes and other businesses. Could I ask for the Minister for Social Justice to consider whether the rights of those who are blind are being infringed, and if so, what steps she might take to work with the Confederation of British Industry and the Federation of Small Businesses to promote better standards, respect and understanding? It is astonishing that in 2022 we could still envisage a world where shops and businesses still refuse entry to people with guide dogs, even when there are legal duties to permit access. If we want to do meaningful things, let's identify the challenge that people still face, and do what we can to put them right. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Thank you.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 4:44, 29 November 2022

Thank you very much, Altaf, and thank you very much for your support. Yes, this is an important annual statement that I make, and I would like to report on some of the action that has been taking place over the past year, and it is action with disabled people. I think that is the most important point. I actually co-chair the disability rights taskforce with Professor Debbie Foster, and on the work streams that are now under way, I'd just like to very quickly report on some of the developments.

We set it up last year, 2021, following the 'Locked out: liberating disabled people’s lives and rights in Wales beyond COVID-19' report, which I mentioned in my statement. We did, in terms of that taskforce, actually define key goals and actions to achieve improvements. That is why we're working to put disabled people central to our plans in terms of their rights. The work we've actually undertaken is based on the social model of disability, and also ensuring that everything we do is co-produced. We've got priorities for this taskforce, and in fact, in February of this year, the work streams that we agreed should be a priority were: embedding and understanding the social model of disability across Wales; access to services, including communications and technology; independent living, health, well-being and social care. Those are the key priorities that were identified and co-produced with disabled people. They have working groups, which are under way. Training has been undertaken, and I think I mentioned earlier on the important training module that Disability Wales has developed. It's also interesting that that contract in terms of access to services, for example communications and technology, is also influencing all the working groups.

It's absolutely right that you raised the issue about the needs of blind and visually impaired people. I was really pleased to engage with Guide Dogs at a recent event in the Senedd. I've met also, through the disability equality forum, with our colleagues from the sector—RNIB and others, Guide Dogs for the Blind. Actually, one of the most important meetings that we had just recently was about accessibility to transport, very much led by the key sector and disability rights activists in this field. So, we are making progress. It is about actually learning and listening and influencing those who have the power to make the changes. In this meeting in terms of transport, my colleague Lee Waters, the Deputy Minister for Climate Change, also met with some of the disability equality forum members, who were talking about the importance of their long-established access group, which of course does influence policy, and particularly in relation to transport. But of course, it is actually in relation to the needs of people in the community, in public places, and I think it's important that we see this in terms of the work that's being done by the taskforce.

So, you know, progress is being made. I thank you for your points today. But also, I think the disability equality forum and the taskforce are influencing our human rights agenda as well, as they form part of our human rights advisory group. They're also advising us—and I think this is important in terms of what's happened in recent weeks and months—on the cost-of-living crisis and the impact it's having on disabled people's lives, and how we then can share this, not just with my colleagues in the Welsh Government, but all those public bodies who have responsibility.

Photo of Sioned Williams Sioned Williams Plaid Cymru 4:49, 29 November 2022

(Translated)

Thank you for the statement, Minister. According to the World Health Organization, a billion people, or 15 per cent of the global population, have some sort of disability. Marking International Day of People with Disabilities not only is an opportunity to ensure that we remember the importance of securing equality and fair opportunities for people here in Wales, but also for the billion people across the globe who face inequalities and injustices of all kinds on a day-to-day basis. I want to focus on that international element, and also the fact that there is often a gap between the experiences of disabled people and the statements of those in power.

We must mention, with Wales’s eyes on Qatar today, and our economy Minister there, nations that don’t recognise disabilities properly and therefore don’t support disabled people sufficiently despite their statements on bold policies. There’s, again, that gap between Government rhetoric and the experience of disabled people themselves. Disability Rights UK, for example, have questioned Qatar’s attitude towards its disabled population as it claims that only 0.5 per cent of its population is disabled, which is completely out of step with the international norm of between 15 and 25 per cent. Disability Rights UK say that disease and genetic factors are mainly responsible for disabilities, according to the Qatari Government website, while injuries cause between a third and 50 per cent of disabilities usually.

We’ve also heard the Qatari Government today recognising that hundreds of people died in constructing the stadia for this world cup. It’s certain, according to Disability Rights UK, that there are thousands more that will have suffered injuries during that work, and those would have led to disabilities. Their fates and their needs are hidden, whilst what is in the global eye is shining, with the facilities for disabled supporters in this world cup among the best that there have ever been in the history of the competition, which is to be welcomed of course, but we need to hear the voices of disabled people and acknowledge their experiences, which is as crucial in Qatar as it is here in Wales. It’s not about access literally to buildings—although of course that needs to be addressed—but it’s the values of society, the social and economic policies in place, that close people out and create inequalities and a lack of opportunities to deliver potential.

The Minister for Economy has stated this morning that the links between Wales and Qatar are to be developed. But if we are serious about our commitment in our future generations legislation to being a nation that is responsible at a global level, whilst contributing positively to global well-being, do you agree, Minister, that we must deeply consider the kinds of nations that we develop economic relationships with, if our words and aspirations are to correspond with our actions? Have you had a conversation with your fellow Minister about that, Minister?

Plaid Cymru, as you mentioned, is very proud of the commitment in our co-operation agreement with the Government to strengthen the rights of disabled people in Wales and to tackle the inequalities that they continue to face, and to ensure the success of the disability rights taskforce, which was established in response to the ‘Locked out’ report. That report demonstrated clearly that the rights, well-being and dignity of disabled people, even in a nation like Wales, were far too vulnerable and, in a period of crisis, were often neglected or left behind. Now, as you’ve mentioned, the cost-of-living crisis and the economic crisis are hitting disabled people harder than most. I’d like to ask, Minister: how specifically will the work of the taskforce ensure that the door doesn’t remain locked during this economic crisis?

Another thing that I would like to understand, and that you mentioned, is the importance of laws and international human rights in this regard. So, would it be possible to have some sort of timetable or schedule for incorporating the UN convention on the rights of disabled people, something that has been pledged in the programme for government? Thank you very much.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 4:54, 29 November 2022

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams, and thank you for shining this light on the international context, that global context of the billion disabled people across the globe. Thank you for focusing on that international element, as an outward-looking nation, and indeed, engaging across the world. And I think the Disability Rights UK evidence as well is really important in terms of the situation in Qatar and the world cup. Yes, we have a real responsibility now to follow up. I will be following this up with the Minister for Economy on his return in terms of the issues that have been highlighted. That is very important, and I'm sure that so much of the responsibility and the interest and the engagement of the Welsh people who are out there now will be fed back to us and we will engage in that way.

Thank you, also, for recognising that it is good that this is part of our co-operation agreement, that we're working together to ensure that the disability rights taskforce does deliver. I think when disabled people felt they were left out, it wasn't recognised fully how they were impacted by COVID. That's why we commissioned this report and that's why it is important we deliver on that report, very much like the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'—that this is about implementation, following through recommendations, co-production and engaging with disabled people to do that in Wales. The response we had at our last taskforce meeting from disabled people was that, yes, they saw that there was a change, that we were making sure that all of our officials and all our public bodies understood what it means to be disabled by society, that we have to remove those barriers.

Of course, now we have got particular extra pressures on disabled people as a result of the cost-of-living crisis, so I think this is something when we—. For example, there have been opportunities to widen the reach of our winter fuel support scheme, so we're reaching out to disabled people, as well. People on personal independence payments and disability benefits are included in our winter fuel support, included in the wider eligibility, and that's also on attendance allowance and carers' allowance, as well. We're looking at all of the other means, ways and levers we're using to support the most vulnerable people, those who are most disadvantaged. Again, there's our discretionary assistance fund, making it more flexible to get emergency and urgent help. That includes, obviously, reaching out to people off grid. This will include disabled people throughout the whole of Wales in every community; we need to reach out to them.

I think, also, just to recognise that this is where, in terms of the cost-of-living crisis, we are talking through the disability equality forum what does it mean for disabled people, how can we support, and what are the best responses. We've discussed this also in the third sector partnership council. There is a recognition that extra heating is needed for disabled people, in terms of keeping temperatures stable, needing to use more fuel. Disabled children and young people often in specialised education, respite settings, with more frequent medical appointments, access to transport—all these things are crucial in terms of the way we're taking this forward.

It is very important, as I said, that disabled people and disability equality forum members are active in our human rights advisory group that we've set up. You know that we're committed in terms of the UN convention on the rights of disabled people. We are committed to incorporating the UN convention, indeed, a number of those UN conventions, into Welsh law. We've set up a human rights advisory group to consider this, including the inclusion of older people's rights, as well, as well as the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women and the elimination of all forms of racial discrimination. But we now have got an advisory group that does include those disabled people who are—. It's a small working group as a sub-committee of the human rights advisory group. We're looking at the exploration of legislative options to fulfil our programme, but also, we're reviewing, which I think is important for now and how people are living now, with the powers that we've got—. We're looking at a review of our public sector equality duty in Wales in terms of reviewing the regulations that we brought in in 2011.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 4:59, 29 November 2022

Vikki Howells. Can Vikki be unmuted, please?

Photo of Vikki Howells Vikki Howells Labour

Diolch, Dirpwy Lywydd. Thank you, Minister, for your statement here today and for the support that you have always shown for disabled people. I have a few questions I'd like to raise, firstly with regard to the elected office fund. I was pleased to hear reference to the access to elected office fund. It's a little over six months now since the last set of council elections in Wales. What assessment has been made in terms of the success of the fund in supporting people with disabilities to stand for election and, indeed, to remove barriers so that they can actually be elected? And are there any elements of learning that will be incorporated ahead of the next set of elections in Wales?

Secondly, I have a question around barriers to accessing health services. I'm dealing with a case at the moment where a constituent who is profoundly deaf is facing difficulties accessing GP services, as their GP is keen for them to be triaged over the telephone, which is not feasible for my constituent. So, I'd like to ask what discussions you might have had with colleagues across Government to ensure that all public services are provided in a format that people with disabilities can access.

And finally, Minster—

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 5:01, 29 November 2022

You've had your two questions and the time. Thank you, Vikki. 

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour

Thank you very much indeed, Vikki Howells, for those two important questions. The elections and the outcome of those elections are important. In fact, this is something that I share responsibility for with the Minister for Finance and Local Government; she is specifically looking at this in terms of our diversity elected office fund and our diversity and democracy programme, and I know that she's got—. A survey has been undertaken of councillors from the last election. The delivery of the access to elected office fund for Wales—the pilot of that—was very important for these last elections. It did actually help the elections last June, in 2021—it was available—and the 2022 May elections this year.

But also, interestingly, Disability Wales is managing the fund, and it received 21 applications from candidates standing in the Senedd last year, but also principal council and town and community council elections this year. I understand that six of the individuals who received the support were successfully elected, all to community councils. These are only very, very early steps, and there is a review of the arrangements that we're undertaking, looking at positive aspects—feedback, again, from disabled people. But I think we now have a commitment—. Well, we clearly have a commitment to our programme for government to explore extending that access to elected office fund. Wales has got to be represented, hasn't it, in all levels of democracy, by all the people of Wales, and disabled people have got to be there, so we must make sure that we further this. We're holding workshops this December to look at this and to learn, again, from disabled people about the fund and access.

You raise a very important point about access to health services. I've mentioned the disability taskforce, and we have a working group, as I mentioned, a work stream on access to services, and that includes communications and technology. So, this is critically important for your constituent accessing GP services. Because of this statement today, I will feed this back and raise this issue, not just through the working group with disabled people, but directly to the Minister for Health and Social Services. 

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 5:03, 29 November 2022

You state in your statement that the

'Welsh Government is a staunch advocate of people's right to control their own life, and for many disabled people, receiving direct payments can be crucial to achieving this goal.'

Yet, despite the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 supposedly addressing this, and incorporating much of my private Members' Bill, which had been proposed before that on these matters, only some 3 per cent of the eligible population in Wales is currently still in receipt of direct payments. So, how do you respond to the statement by Disability Wales, quote:

'We do not see a clear strategy of direct payments supporting disabled people to take them on or to address any of the concerns or barriers to them raised by disabled people. Some disabled people are still not aware of the existence of direct payments, or how they can access them'?

My second point, and final one is, you state in your statement that:

'Promoting and embedding the social model of disability, in both Welsh Government and public bodies across Wales, is a firm priority of this Government.'

How do you, therefore, respond to a concern expressed today by Disability Wales—a particular concern that there is no duty on local authorities to ensure that people are aware of the support available; there is a lack of an easily accessible information point to see entitlements; despite prior commitments, we still see that Wales is not meeting up to commitments under the UN convention on the rights of disabled people; and crucially, they do not have clear information on the time frame for incorporation of the convention, and although— 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 5:05, 29 November 2022

Thank you, Mark—you have exceeded your time.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

I'll finish—yes.

—and although they describe the establishment of the disability rights taskforce as good practice, they state that there is an implementation gap between the policy developed and the impact of it on disabled people in Wales?

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour 5:06, 29 November 2022

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, and thank you for those really important questions about direct payments. Again, like in the previous questions I've had today, many of these are shared responsibilities with other Ministers in the Welsh Government. So, direct payments are with my colleague, Julie Morgan, Deputy Minister for Social Services. In my statement, I talk about the fact that together, we're going to speak at Dewis, the independent organisation controlled by disabled people, about how we can improve the take-up of direct payments in Wales.

You know, it's critical that people can be offered and can take up direct payments as a preferred way to live their lives, and, as I said, that it's very consistent, as you, of course, recognise, with the social model of disability. So, we have co-produced and published clear and concise advice about direct payments, and that's trying to bust some of the myths and misconceptions that might have developed about direct payments. So, it is a commitment and it's good to be able to strengthen the commitment through my response to your questions today about expanding the use of direct payments.

I think it's also a recognition that this is a key call from disabled people in Wales, as you say. So, clearly, we welcome any statements or any calls for action from Disability Wales and from our colleagues in the disability equality forum. Of course, direct payments actually can help meet people's individual needs for care and support, and it is an alternative to local authority-arranged care or support; it gives people more choice, greater flexibility and more control over the support that they can get. So, having the response and backing today for the steps that we are taking, again across Government, to deliver on this is crucially important, but we need to be able to support people and work with local authorities to make sure—and this is in the spirit and, indeed, the intent of the social services and well-being Act. 

I have responded to the important work that has been done by our human rights advisory group with that working group that has been set up, and Disability Wales is represented on that in terms of the incorporation of the UN conventions into Welsh law. It's a long haul, but we're working on it.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 5:08, 29 November 2022

(Translated)

Finally, Laura Anne Jones.

Photo of Laura Anne Jones Laura Anne Jones Conservative

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. Thank you for your statement, Minister, and thank you for all that's been done to date, but it is palpably clear, as we all recognise in this Chamber today, that there's still more that needs to be done. Today's topic is an important one. The 2021 'Locked out' Senedd report that you mentioned, Minister, brought to light some deeply concerning findings. The report found that nearly 42 per cent of disabled people experienced mid-to-high levels of anxiety, compared to 29 per cent of non-disabled people.

Coming out of the pandemic, access to sport and physical activity, which has long been cited as a credible source for combating loneliness, mental illness and isolation, has never been more important. Data has shown that disabled people are twice as likely to be physically inactive, in large part due to the lack of suitable local sporting facilities. As chair of the cross-party group on sport, we will receive evidence on this soon, and I look forward to sharing that with you and the taskforce. 

But, Minister, I point you to the work done by the federation of Disability Sport Wales—my question is on this—and the positive initiatives they're undertaking, such as their collaboration with Sport Wales on the delivery of the insport project, which aims to support the sporting and leisure sectors to deliver services inclusive of disabled people. This involves developing a toolkit. Currently there are 50 clubs out of 5,000 sports clubs in Wales that have reached that bronze level. Minister, this means that only 2.6 per cent of sports clubs in Wales have this important insport accreditation, and that's not good enough. Having worked for a voluntary—

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 5:10, 29 November 2022

You will need to conclude now, please. 

Photo of Laura Anne Jones Laura Anne Jones Conservative

—sports club myself, the major barrier, obviously, is finance. Minister, will your Government commit today, on the International Day of People with Disabilities, to properly and financially support this crucial insport initiative that has the potential to make so much different to many? And if I may, Deputy Presiding Officer, how are you working with the Youth Parliament to ensure that their viewpoint—it will be very interesting when developing the strategy? Thank you.

Photo of Jane Hutt Jane Hutt Labour

Thank you very much, Laura Anne Jones. As I said more than once in my statement, clearly more needs to be done, and we've got the evidence with 'Locked out: liberating disabled people's lives and rights in Wales beyond COVID-19', we've got the taskforce, and we're working together. So, I will take back what you've said today, when you called upon the role of Disability Sport Wales, and indeed I'll be very happy, again, to work with my colleague, Dawn Bowden on this, because this is actually again a cross-Government issue. Indeed, I'm sure that one or both of us at some point will want to join the cross-party group.

I'm very pleased also that you've mentioned the voices of young disabled people and children so that we can look not just at the Youth Parliament, but the work that's being done by Children in Wales—for example, the surveys that they're undertaking with children and young people at the moment. The children's commissioner's just completed her first review and survey with children and young people, including disabled children and young people, so all of those points, obviously, I will follow up. Thank you very much. Diolch. 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 5:11, 29 November 2022

(Translated)

I thank the Minister.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.24, unless any Member objects, the two motions under items 9 and 10, the general principles of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill and the financial resolution, will be grouped for debate, but with separate votes. I see that there are no objections.