5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change: Bus Reform

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:48 pm on 6 December 2022.

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Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 3:48, 6 December 2022

Thank you for those questions. There are many of them, and I'll do my best to answer them, but I warmly welcome Natasha Asghar's statement that she accepts the role of franchising and asks how we make it affordable, sustainable and deliverable, and this, I think, is at the crux of it, really. I think we need to decouple how do you make the system better and then the question of how do we grow the system and how do we run services, and I think those are two related but separate questions. And the latter will depend upon the funding that is available, and I must tell Members that, when they see the budget for next year, we are really struggling to be able to deliver our public transport ambitions, because of the, in effect, significant cut to our budget, and that is a real constraint for us. So, I think the system will improve the amount of money we already spend by making it more strategic and less fragmented, but the question of how we scale that in time will depend on the budget and the priority that this Senedd is willing to put on public transport. The question was about how we retain unprofitable but socially necessary routes, and that is a critical part of the need for this model. Because what this model allows is us to plan on a regional basis, or an area basis. It's to be decided what the footprint is. It could be carved up into smaller units. It could be done on a corporate joint committee basis. That's to be determined. But within that we will be able to cross-subside routes from the commercially profitable ones, and put the profit into less profitable routes, but socially necessary ones, as Natasha Asghar asks. So, I think that is the core of this approach. That's why this approach is so important, because it allows us to do that, whereas currently it is illegal do that, and that's one of the perversities of the privatised system we live with.

Likewise, how do we link to hospitals and key public services? The exercise that TfW is going through now with local authorities—started already in Ynys Môn and Gwynedd and working through—is to sit down with their local experts and map where the route networks should go, what are the key trip generators they should link to, and make sure those routes are then part of the franchising tendering arrangements. So, it allows us to take a strategic, whole-area approach, again, unlike the current system where, for example, the Grange hospital in Cwmbran is very poorly served by bus routes. So, that wouldn't happen under this system. Similarly, in rural areas, and I've been having a series of meetings with local authorities from rural areas on what we can do together to make modal shift practical and realistic in rural areas, and there are a number of things that we've identified we can do. But having regular bus services—. Because, again, this is matter of choice. There are parts of rural Germany where they have a bus service every hour to every village. Now, that's doable, and we could do that in Wales, if that was the priority we set and if we put aside funding for that. In Germany they raise a regional tax on businesses to pay for that, for example. So, there's a debate to be had about how we do it, but it certainly can be done.

In terms of the all-Wales travel card, I completely agree. That is an aspiration we share, and this will allow that to happen. The interoperability of tickets between different modes of transport in different parts of Wales is something very much we'll be able to do under the legislation.

Who will the board, the supervisory board, be accountable to? Well, it'll combine different elements. So, we absolutely want to have local accountability retained. So, local councils will still be accountable to their voters and to their ward members for the things that local councils are best in charge of—so, local bus stops, routes and so on. At the regional level we'll have the CJC structure, which has its own accountability routes, and then, of course, the Welsh Government will continue to be accountable to the Senedd.

And electric buses, finally, are absolutely essential for the modal shift agenda, as well as meeting our carbon targets, where we have targets to reduce the 50 per cent most polluting vehicles by the end of decade. And I think that is going to be key to the franchising system and the conditions we set for awarding the contracts.